Yuletide tags are out: Frederician version

[cahn]

Come join us in this crazy Frederick the Great fandom and learn more about all these crazy associated people, like the star-crossed and heartbreaking romance between Maria Theresia's daughter Maria Christina and her daughter-in-law Isabella, wow.

OK, so, there are FOURTEEN characters nominated:
Anna Karolina Orzelska (Frederician RPF)
Elisabeth Christine von Preußen | Elisabeth Christine Queen of Prussia (Frederician RPF)
Francesco Algarotti (Frederician RPF)
François-Marie Arouet | Voltaire (Frederician RPF)
Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great (Frederician RPF)
Hans Hermann Von Katte (Frederician RPF)
Joseph II Holy Roman Emperor (Frederician RPF)
Maria Theresia | Maria Theresa of Austria (Frederician RPF)
Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf (Frederician RPF)
Peter Karl Christoph von Keith (Frederician RPF)
Sophia Dorothea of Hanover (Frederician RPF)
Stanisław August Poniatowski (Frederician RPF)
Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758) (Frederician RPF)
Yekatarina II Alekseyevna | Catherine the Great of Russia (Frederician RPF)

This means some fourth person kindly nominated Algarotti and -- I think? -- Stanislaw August Poniatowski! YAY! Thank you fourth person! Come be our friend! :D Yuletide is so great!

I am definitely requesting Maria Theresia, Wilhelmine, and Fritz (Put them in a room together. Shake. How big is the explosion?), and thinking about Elisabeth Christine, but maybe not this year.

I am also declaring this post another Frederician post, as the last one was getting out of hand. I think I'll still use that one as the overall index to these, though, to keep all the links in one place.

(seriously, every time I think the wild stories are done there is ANOTHER one)

Comments

Re: Alternate universes where everyone is at least incrementally more happy

[selenak]

I thought you might. :) The medieval legal precedent involves a royal daughter accusing her father's murderer in front of the assembled princes. Wilhelmine, as a princess of two electorate princely houses (Brandenburg and Hannover) and a direct blood relation to the dead victim, himself a prince of said houses, would be entitled to bring her suit in front of the Emperor, who has to hear her out in full. (And in public.) And we know from the memoirs she had a way with words if she wanted to. And the theatrical instinct of an opera composer. Imagine all the anachronistic Verdi soundtrack you want. (He wrote some mighty vengeance tunes, after all!)

Re: Alternate universes where everyone is at least incrementally more happy

[cahn]

I, uh. Might have added this to my Yuletide letter as Another Thing I Desperately Want :P :D

Now that you mention it, I ALSO really want the Verdi opera (and possibly Schiller play) that the censors made him write about some other place entirely (probably set in Boston :P ) with MT-Wilhelmine duet, and MT-Emperor-Wilhelmine-Katte quartet in the climactic crowd scene. Sadly this would be somewhat harder to come by :)

And I guess in this universe we don't have Don Carlo(s), which... well, since we're making this up, I'm totally going to make up that Schiller wrote this play that was at least as good, and Verdi's opera based on it was also at least as good :)

Umm, for science, where can I get my hands on something describing this medieval legal precedent?

Re: Alternate universes where everyone is at least incrementally more happy

[mildred_of_midgard]

Haha.

Also, please don't read anything into the number of times I keep adding prompts the amount of stuff I have written for each fandom

:-P

Re: Alternate universes where everyone is at least incrementally more happy

[cahn]

I can't help it you guys keep coming up with the best prompts! If someone were coming up with awesome Cordwainer Smith prompts Every Day I'd be adding to those too :P :D

Re: Alternate universes where everyone is at least incrementally more happy

[selenak]

Precedent: Alas we run into the language problem again. The one that came immediately to my mind when thinking about this involved a murder thta took place in my hometown, Bamberg. This was at a time when two dynasties, the Welfen and the Hohenstaufen, were duking it out for the throne - think War of the Roses in England, or Game of Thrones, whatever you prefer.

Dead victim and one of the two German Kings (not yet HR Emperors, since each was claiming to be the true contender; both were already crowned as King, though): Philip of Swabia. About to win the struggle after years. Gets killed by one Otto of Wittelsbach, not to be confused with:

Otto IV, his rival, the main benefitter of Philip's death. He did make it to Emperor thereafter, but eventually was toppled by Philip's nephew, Frederick II of Hohenstaufen, every bit as interesting and complex a man as his Prussian namesake and not of impact to this story, since he was a child in Sicily when it took place.

Anyway. Otto the Rival and future Emperor of course was invested in proving he had nothing to do with Otto of Wittelsbach conveniently offing Philip in my hometown where Philip had been to celebrate his niece's wedding with a guy called, you guessed it, Otto (of Merano - I tell you, medieval name-sameness is infuriating). So Otto the not yet IV who was, btw, Eleanor of Acuitaine's grandson and Richard the Lionheart's nephew allowed Philip's daughter Beatrice to present her case against Otto of Wittelsbach at the Imperial Diet in Frankfurt, the very same where Otto the not yet IV, as the sole remaining contender for the throne, would be declared now undisputed German king and future Emperor. Beatrice (still a minor, btw) made her case and formal accusation against Otto of Wittelsbach, who was then declared a murderer and criminal and subsequently hunted down and beheaded by her dad's bff Heinrich of Kalden. To further win over any disgruntled followers of the House of Hohenstaufen and prove he's sorry about Philip, honest, Otto the finally IV declared he'd marry Beatrice.

Which he did, a few years later, since she hadn't had her period yet by the time her father was murdered. Poor Beatrice died 24 days after Otto made the marriage legal by having sex with her. Draw your own conclusions from that. It's a horrible tale and Otto deserved his own downfall courtesy of Beatrice's cousin Frederick, but that's neither here nor there and has nothing to do with Wilhelmine in the AU.

Anyway: that's the legal precedent I meant. I linked the English wiki entries for Philip and Otto (IV); the Frankfurt Imperial Diet where Beatrice made her case doesn't have an extra one.

And yes, Schiller and Verdi after him simply used another historical subject to diguise what they were writing about!

Re: Alternate universes where everyone is at least incrementally more happy

[cahn]

This is amazing and awesome, although terrible for Beatrice :( Thank you!

Also, this is why your synopses are WAY better than reading Wikipedia:

Otto was related to every other King of Germany. He married twice:
1209 or 1212 to Beatrice of Swabia, daughter of the German King Philip of Swabia and Irene Angelina.[32]
19 May 1214, in Aachen to Maria of Brabant, daughter of Henry I, Duke of Brabant, and Matilda of Boulogne.[33]
Neither marriage produced any children. [bolding mine]

YOU THINK?

Re: Alternate universes where everyone is at least incrementally more happy

[mildred_of_midgard]

Right? I looked at Wikipedia and got *nothing* out of it that even hinted there was anything nearly as interesting as her write-up.

Game of Thrones, HRE Edition

[selenak]

I may have done extensive research on the era for professional reasons. Also, like I said, 'twas my hometown Philip's murder took place in. The wiki entry on Otto (IV) at least mentions he got flogged to death at his own request to expiate for his sins, which certainly is one of the most flamboyant of our Emperors' deaths, but given Beatrice died 24 days after the marriage got consumated, my sympathy for him is, err, non existent. (He also raped at least one mayor's wife when he toured the German cities after finally making it on the throne.)

Another true story wiki barely hints at is that young Frederick, who'd travelled across the Alps with a small entourage which Otto sought to prevent, arrived just three hours before Otto did at Late Konstanz and thus literally sat down and ate the meal prepared for Otto. He got let in because he had the excommunication bill against Otto with him, which made 17 years old Federico Secondo the sole remaining legal King of the Romans, Germans and of Sicily. If he'd arrived three hours later, though, after Otto's men had already occupied the city, he'd have been screwed.

Otto had it coming there, too. The main reason why the Pope until then had backed Otto and the Welfs against the Staufen was that he wanted to prevent the Church territories being sandwiched between the HRE on the one hand and the Kingdom of Sicily (which covered a large part of lower Italy in addition to the island and belonged to the Staufen since Frederick's father and Philip's older brother had married Constance d'Hauteville, heiress to the Norman Kings of Sicily) on the other, and he'd made Otto promise Otto would never claim Sicily. Of course, no sooner was Otto crowned as Emperor in Rome by the Pope that he took the army he'd conveniently brought with him ("just an escort, your holiness, honest") and marched on Sicily.

Now, young Frederick, who'd been orphaned at age 4, had survived various regents and grown up in Palermo partly raised by the local population (Sicilian-Norman-Arab, and his life long affinity to Muslim culture hails from there), had started to rule Sicily at 14 (which was when Norman Kings come of age) and had no army to speak of. He'd been screwed if Otto had actually invaded. But that particular Pope was one of the most ruthless and inventive politicians of the middle ages. Sure, he'd had excommunicated the late Philip of Swabia and backed Otto in order to keep the Staufen from owning the HRE and Sicily both, but now that Otto had broken the promise under which he'd been made Emperor, well, Innocent III excommunicated Otto and basically told young Federico that if he could make it to Germany alive across the Alps (where Otto's men were stationed), Germany was his. Otto, instead of advancing further to Sicily, hastily returned to cover his home base, and that was his mistake.

(In his time as Emperor, years later, Frederick also got excommunicated, twice, by two different Popes. The first time this happened, he dealt with it by going on Crusade - excommunicated, mind - , negotiated a peaceful solution with the Sultan, and crowned himself - since no Priest was allowed to - King of Jerusalem right there without having had to fight a single battle. The Templars tried to kill him, though, and failed. Pope Gregory then had to end the excommunication on him.)

Re: Game of Thrones, HRE Edition

[cahn]

Wooooow. This is amazing! Wow, Innocent III, way to... not live up to your name. :)

Pope Gregory then had to end the excommunication on him.

I might have actually laughed at that bit. Hee. Sorry (not sorry) Pope Gregory!