In which I have a lot of messy feelings about Plácido Domingo and Verdi and tenors

[cahn]

-I absolutely think Domingo has been sexually harassing women

-I think it was absolutely the right decision that he not be at the Met anymore

-he's an amazing artist and to be honest I'm sad he won't be at the Met anymore even if I fully support that decision

-wtf Gelb for being all not-believing for frankly bizarre reasons (most of the complaints were anonymous? AP isn't reputable media? WHAT)

-it is the lowest of low bars but it was way more classy of Domingo to resign from LA Opera than James Levine's "I will sue everyone in sight" response

-(let me say I do not mean this as an excuse at ALL) I do kinda feel like he was set up for failure, by which I mean, the guy's career involved a whole heck of a lot of singing Verdi tenors -- they ARE ALMOST ALL SEXUAL HARASSERS (*) who are also considered the heroes, and not only does the narrative almost never call them out for their sexual harassment, indeed it usually celebrates them for being the hero. And it's not even like saying the culture is a culture of harassment, it's saying that your job is literally to glorify it! Honestly, it's surprising to me that all Verdian tenors aren't awful to women -- and of course we're seeing more and more that they are (see also the recent news about Vittorio Grigolo)

-I imagine it's not nearly as bad a problem with Verdian baritones and violence, if it's a problem at all, because that violence is always called out by the narrative even when our sympathies are with it (hiiiiii Renato)

-I suspect that if, for example, Jonas Kaufmann isn't a sexual harasser (I really hope he's not), that it may partially be because he's made a career out of interpretations where the interpretation subtext does the job of calling out the tenor for his harassment (e.g., his twitchy and half-insane Don Carlo).

-I don't know what the solution is, because obviously I ADORE Verdi and I don't want people to stop doing Verdi, nor do I think it's a tenable solution for all Verdi tenors to always be twitchy

-on the other hand, it's probably possible to generally stage things as a little less... leaning on the heroic sexual harassment

-(*) In related news, I realized a couple of weeks ago that Forza is a weird opera for me to listen to because the tenor comes on and my visceral reaction has been conditioned to be OH NO TENOR UGH and then my conscious brain kicks in and is all, oh, no, Don Alvaro is awesome and respectful of everyone! it's the baritone in this one who is the whiny awful harasser! and my visceral hindbrain is all WHAT THAT DOES NOT COMPUTE

Comments

[zdenka]

I've been having so many mixed feelings about it too, ever since I heard the news. I believe it's true, and I'm sad and angry and disappointed, and I think he should suffer consequences. I also have complicated feelings because he was on the first opera recordings I ever owned, and I admired him as a singer and an actor and he was one of the people who was really formative to how I think about opera and to an extent how I perform music myself. He was also the only tenor I've seen who could convince me that Calaf isn't awful ( . . . I may not be able to watch Turandot at all now). Obviously my feelings are less important than those of the women he harassed and anyone else who has been directly affected by it. But they are still feelings which I have, and it's not hurting anyone if I express them here.

That said, I'm kind of sceptical that performing Verdi tenor roles leads to someone becoming a sexual harasser. I would believe that being a superstar and lionized and admired can lead to attitudes which can make some people feel entitled to treat others as less than human, and to a general attitude that lets them get away with it. (It's not only opera stars, but sports stars, movie directors, anyone who is used to being admired and looked up to and getting away with bad behavior.) But an actor isn't the role they play, and any sane person knows how to make that separation between things their character does onstage and things they do offstage.

[cahn]

:( Yeah, as I've been going through this mad opera phase this last year he has been one of the singers who has been instrumental in how I thought about various operas and characters (and as this news broke I was going through this phase of listening on Spotify to a bunch of random early Verdi he did with Milnes and Caballe, all of which is brilliant)(not related to anything, I love Milnes so much!!), and none of this changes that he is a consummate performer and singer and I have always really enjoyed his work :( And, of course, none of this changes what he did, either.

Ha, I should not post late at night -- I don't really mean exactly that performing Verdi (and it's not just Verdi, of course -- Puccini (gah, Calaf really is awful), and all that French opera, but at this point I know a lot more about Verdi) makes someone a sexual harasser, and of course you are right that being a superstar and admired is the main thing going on here. And I agree an actor isn't the role. (otherwise who could ever play Don Giovanni? :) )

But I also feel like -- and I may be off base here because I am piecing this together from somewhat random stories and comments -- I get the feeling that, except for this, Domingo was generally considered (and probably considers himself) a reasonably nice guy, which is part of this whole weird disconnect. And in all these opera stories sexual harassers are portrayed as reasonably nice guys and even heroes, and I could see those lines getting blurred in your head if the stories you're telling are all stories where it's totally OK to do stuff like that and no one objects or thinks it's bad. Does that kind of make sense? I don't mean it as an excuse at all, just sort of thinking through the culture. And maybe I'm totally wrong.

[nineveh_uk]

It makes sense to me, but I think I'd ascribe it to wider culture rather than opera. I'm sure that Domingo was and is otherwise considered a nice guy, lots of sexual harassers are. For one thing, to get into situations when one can harass it's a big help to be personable and able to talk to people without giving off radioactive danger vibes, but also, people compartmentalise and justify what we do. People who steal from their employers tell themselves that they deserve it. Habitual drink drivers tell themselves that they are good drivers and the laws are ridiculous. Harassers do the same, and though Verdi isn't saying it's bad, nor are the people and culture around it, because the narrative has so very much not been that it's a serious thing, and AFAIK know that's very much been the case in theatre and the entertainment world. And once some is established, then even if it is kind of known, well, it's just them, who would ruin a brilliant career over such a minor thing?

Seconds the love for Milnes. My favourite Scarpia.

[cahn]

*nods* Yes, I agree that's the most important thing. Although I do think that culture and the artistic stories that are told and how they're chosen to be told can be all mixed up together -- like in that ROH Nozze, Keenlyside and Harvey were definitely playing up the middle-aged creep vibes in a way that I feel like I haven't seen before; it felt like a very post-#MeToo kind of framing. But of course, as you're saying, that's wider culture influencing the story, rather than the other way around.

ETA: I LOVE Milnes' Scarpia <3

[zdenka]

Don't worry, I don't think you're excusing them. I just think that the messages from the culture that someone is living in every day are a lot more influential than messages from 19th-century opera, even if those messages sometimes overlap (because some things have changed, fortunately, but some really haven't). Like, you're in rehearsal or performances for a few hours, compared to all the rest of life. And as someone who's been in plenty of stage performances myself, though just at an amateur level, I find it hard to believe that someone could really start mixing up themself and their roles. Maybe indirectly, like if someone plays a hot jerk on stage and gets admiring fans because of that . . . but I can't believe that playing the role of a bad person is inherently dangerous. That seems like magical thinking to me. And I've never heard that baritones who play Don Giovanni are more likely to be sexual harassers in real life.

I agree with what nineveh_uk said.

[cahn]

*nods* That makes sense. And I definitely agree with you about Don Giovanni :) I do think that the culture and the stories that are told (and the way they are chosen to be told) can be all mixed up together.