Fredersdorf?! Our Fredersdorf? That's awesome! I hope he doesn't get dismissed for embezzlement.
I guess it doesn't surprise me that they picked Bartenstein for character development (MT transitioning from untried young woman into seasoned empress), nor that there's only one minister, even if Kaunitz is the more famous of the two (certainly the only one I remembered from my teenage 18th century history-studying days). I'll be interested to see if they attribute any of the latter's personality or accomplishments (the Diplomatic Revolution?) to Bartenstein.
I bet Bartenstein gets to be the Diplomatic Revolution guy as well. ((I note August of Saxony is among the cast, but not Brühl. So Bartenstein will really get the entire credit.)
Re: Fredersdorf: no way there is room for this subplot, but between Fredersdorf getting slandered and the story of FS selling supplies to the Prussians (which if I understood the later biographers correctly came from Fritz in his Histoire, and contradicts an actual letter of his during the war where he complains FS buying so many supplies for Team Austria is getting the prices up), there clearly needs to be an AU where Fredersdorf and FS get into business together. :)
More seriously, fictional versions of Fredersdorf I am familiar with so far outside of our very salon writing community:
1) Fredersdorf in "Sachsens Glanz und Preußens Gloria". Is accurately depicted as Fritz' confidant and spymaster, but is inaccurately smaller than Fritz. And also in good health.
2) Fredersdorf in "Der Meister von Sanssouci": is the closest thing the novel has to a main villain, jealously scheming against Knobelsdorff and contributing to the enstrangement between him and Fritz; is depicted as your avarage corrupt and ambitious servant, no hint of a special connection with Fritz.
39 Not!Fredersdorf in "Mein Name ist Bach": Isn't called Fredersdorf and wears Heinrich's wig, but has in many ways Fredersdorf's position - seems to be something between a main steward, chief spy and exhausted therapist for Fritz when Fritz rp's himself and Katte in the middle of the night.
And that's it. My current guess is that the musical's Fredersdorf will at the very least be Fritz' closest confidant (and on a Doylist level probably is there so Fritz doesn't have to monologue about his intentions in all three wars but can have dialogue with someone), but the fact he's listed with both first names and not just the last one indicates the librettists have done their research, and we might get an indication he and Fritz aren't just servant and master but something closer. All kidding aside, a Fredersdorf and FS parallel (as loyal spouses grounding their high maintenance ruling partners, whose deaths do devastate them and signal a long widowhood of loneliness) would be dramatically useful and interesting, and I do hope for that quartet.
I know there are at least 2 more fictional Fredersdorfs; Luise Mühlbach's (scheming with Pöllnitz* to be the powerful favorites but learns the error of his ways), and one where the focus is on his alchemy, but I ran into that years ago and can't find it again in a quick google search. Possibly also Mühlbach but a different volume.
* I like to think Fredersdorf would have better taste as well as judgment. At least pick Keyserlingk!
Isn't called Fredersdorf and wears Heinrich's wig
This is still hilarious.
exhausted therapist for Fritz when Fritz rp's himself and Katte in the middle of the night.
Somebody should still write the fanfic in which Fredersdorf does it as a one-time thing!
Eh, I don’t think Fritz would do the rp with Fredersdorf, but I could see him do it with some of those handsome hussars he knows he can fire if needs must. Once he realised Fredersdorf became emotionally important to him, he’d have thought it would negatively affect their relationship. Also, Fredersdorf’s inability to speak French would destroy the therapeutic illusion, since he talked in French with Katte, so no matter whether he’s playing himself or Katte, he’d do it in French.
Agreed that Pöllnitz would not have been Fredersdorf’s choice to conspire with, especially if the goal is to gain more influence and power. He knew damn well Fritz didn’t trust Pöllnitz was far as he could throw him and just regarded him as an amusing anecdote collection. (And yes, he was aware Keyserlingk meant something. Some of the few preserved Fredersdorf letters were about taking care of Keyserlingk’s widow and daughter on Fritz’ behalf, after all, and they include the observation that litte Miss Keyserlingk already is as chatty as her Dad.
(Lehndorff: I still can’t believe what that young Miss later got away with, just because the King felt sentimental!)
Eh, I don’t think Fritz would do the rp with Fredersdorf, but I could see him do it with some of those handsome hussars he knows he can fire if needs must. Once he realised Fredersdorf became emotionally important to him, he’d have thought it would negatively affect their relationship. Also, Fredersdorf’s inability to speak French would destroy the therapeutic illusion, since he talked in French with Katte, so no matter whether he’s playing himself or Katte, he’d do it in French.
I now want a story where Fritz, not as a regular habit but as a one time only thing once in a blue night asks Fredersdorf to do this roleplay with him and Fredersdorf for a variety of reasons says yes.
Cahn and I both immediately also wanted this fic! I've never quite given up on writing it, although let's be real, I haven't written (or at least finished)fanfic in 5 years, and I'm unlikely to start now! Too much nonfiction to be written (and finished!). Mostly I just fantasize that it exists and that someone else writes it for me. :P Though I agree the French might be a sticking point. Hmm.
there clearly needs to be an AU where Fredersdorf and FS get into business together
omg would read!!
Is accurately depicted as Fritz' confidant and spymaster, but is inaccurately smaller than Fritz.
I remember this freaked me out!
All kidding aside, a Fredersdorf and FS parallel (as loyal spouses grounding their high maintenance ruling partners, whose deaths do devastate them and signal a long widowhood of loneliness) would be dramatically useful and interesting, and I do hope for that quartet.
yessss! (I am just a sucker for quartets in musicals in general, to be honest.)
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timeasmymeasure
Re: MT: The Musical
Date: 2025-08-08 11:22 pm (UTC)I hope he doesn't get dismissed for embezzlement.I guess it doesn't surprise me that they picked Bartenstein for character development (MT transitioning from untried young woman into seasoned empress), nor that there's only one minister, even if Kaunitz is the more famous of the two (certainly the only one I remembered from my teenage 18th century history-studying days). I'll be interested to see if they attribute any of the latter's personality or accomplishments (the Diplomatic Revolution?) to Bartenstein.
Re: MT: The Musical
Date: 2025-08-09 07:00 am (UTC)Re: Fredersdorf: no way there is room for this subplot, but between Fredersdorf getting slandered and the story of FS selling supplies to the Prussians (which if I understood the later biographers correctly came from Fritz in his Histoire, and contradicts an actual letter of his during the war where he complains FS buying so many supplies for Team Austria is getting the prices up), there clearly needs to be an AU where Fredersdorf and FS get into business together. :)
More seriously, fictional versions of Fredersdorf I am familiar with so far outside of our very salon writing community:
1) Fredersdorf in "Sachsens Glanz und Preußens Gloria". Is accurately depicted as Fritz' confidant and spymaster, but is inaccurately smaller than Fritz. And also in good health.
2) Fredersdorf in "Der Meister von Sanssouci": is the closest thing the novel has to a main villain, jealously scheming against Knobelsdorff and contributing to the enstrangement between him and Fritz; is depicted as your avarage corrupt and ambitious servant, no hint of a special connection with Fritz.
39 Not!Fredersdorf in "Mein Name ist Bach": Isn't called Fredersdorf and wears Heinrich's wig, but has in many ways Fredersdorf's position - seems to be something between a main steward, chief spy and exhausted therapist for Fritz when Fritz rp's himself and Katte in the middle of the night.
And that's it. My current guess is that the musical's Fredersdorf will at the very least be Fritz' closest confidant (and on a Doylist level probably is there so Fritz doesn't have to monologue about his intentions in all three wars but can have dialogue with someone), but the fact he's listed with both first names and not just the last one indicates the librettists have done their research, and we might get an indication he and Fritz aren't just servant and master but something closer. All kidding aside, a Fredersdorf and FS parallel (as loyal spouses grounding their high maintenance ruling partners, whose deaths do devastate them and signal a long widowhood of loneliness) would be dramatically useful and interesting, and I do hope for that quartet.
Re: MT: The Musical
Date: 2025-08-16 07:53 pm (UTC)I know there are at least 2 more fictional Fredersdorfs; Luise Mühlbach's (scheming with Pöllnitz* to be the powerful favorites but learns the error of his ways), and one where the focus is on his alchemy, but I ran into that years ago and can't find it again in a quick google search. Possibly also Mühlbach but a different volume.
* I like to think Fredersdorf would have better taste as well as judgment. At least pick Keyserlingk!
Isn't called Fredersdorf and wears Heinrich's wig
This is still hilarious.
exhausted therapist for Fritz when Fritz rp's himself and Katte in the middle of the night.
Somebody should still write the fanfic in which Fredersdorf does it as a one-time thing!
Re: MT: The Musical
Date: 2025-08-17 05:48 pm (UTC)Agreed that Pöllnitz would not have been Fredersdorf’s choice to conspire with, especially if the goal is to gain more influence and power. He knew damn well Fritz didn’t trust Pöllnitz was far as he could throw him and just regarded him as an amusing anecdote collection. (And yes, he was aware Keyserlingk meant something. Some of the few preserved Fredersdorf letters were about taking care of Keyserlingk’s widow and daughter on Fritz’ behalf, after all, and they include the observation that litte Miss Keyserlingk already is as chatty as her Dad.
(Lehndorff: I still can’t believe what that young Miss later got away with, just because the King felt sentimental!)
Re: MT: The Musical
Date: 2025-08-17 06:10 pm (UTC)Interesting! A few years ago, you thought otherwise:
I now want a story where Fritz, not as a regular habit but as a one time only thing once in a blue night asks Fredersdorf to do this roleplay with him and Fredersdorf for a variety of reasons says yes.
Cahn and I both immediately also wanted this fic! I've never quite given up on writing it, although let's be real, I haven't written (or at least finished)fanfic in 5 years, and I'm unlikely to start now! Too much nonfiction to be written (and finished!). Mostly I just fantasize that it exists and that someone else writes it for me. :P Though I agree the French might be a sticking point. Hmm.
Re: MT: The Musical
Date: 2025-08-18 03:14 am (UTC)omg would read!!
Is accurately depicted as Fritz' confidant and spymaster, but is inaccurately smaller than Fritz.
I remember this freaked me out!
All kidding aside, a Fredersdorf and FS parallel (as loyal spouses grounding their high maintenance ruling partners, whose deaths do devastate them and signal a long widowhood of loneliness) would be dramatically useful and interesting, and I do hope for that quartet.
yessss! (I am just a sucker for quartets in musicals in general, to be honest.)
Re: MT: The Musical
Date: 2025-08-18 03:16 am (UTC)