Remember when Stefan Hartmann claimed "In his report from November 5th, 1730, Løvenørn describes that when the death sentence was read to him, Katte had lost all 'contenance' and burst into tears," but we couldn't find this report? Even when I spent $350 ordering scans of Løvenørn's reports from the Danish archive?
And then I suspected the passage might actually be in von Johnn's reports, and was trying to recruit luzula to go photograph all the reports from the relevant time range for me?
In the last week, I even started planning a Europe trip for next year, in which I was going to visit the Copenhagen archives myself, if Luzula didn't have time by then!
Well, look no further: it *is* Johnn and it is digitized! And here is what Johnn wrote:
On the 2nd of this month, all the members of the said Council, who had come here the day before, assembled at the Office of the Auditor General, at the Grand Guard of the New Market, and having summoned Lieutenant Katte, they read before him first the sentence of the Council of War, which he listened to with great sang-froid, but when they then came to read the King's order, stating that his head would be cut off, he lost all composure to the point of shedding tears in abundance; which extremely touched the whole Council.
Cahn, remember that the council of war recommended life (i.e. until FW died) imprisonment, and FW upgraded the sentence.
So now neither Luzula nor I have to go to Copenhagen! More time for other places to visit!
Reading Johnn's reports a little further, I didn't remember or had forgotten that Grandpa Wartensleben wrote *two* letters to FW begging for mercy. To the first one, Johnn said he got the reply that we know about, that Katte deserved an entirely different kind of death (i.e. to be torn apart with red-hot pincers), but out of consideration for his family, FW went with a clean beheading. To the second letter, FW made no reply.
I also hadn't realized that in Berlin, no one was sure why Katte was being taken to Küstrin, though Johnn wrote that nobody could think of any other reason than to make Fritz watch. It would be strange, Johnn wrote, to send him there in order to pardon him.
But on November 8, while Johnn thinks that this young man's head is already off (he is correct), some people are apparently still holding out hope for a pardon from FW at the very moment of execution. They don't get the news until November 8.
Oh, wow, Johnn is saying Seckendorff appears very annoyed at not having been able to obtain mercy from FW for Lieutenant Katte, who was his (Seckendorff's) relative. I didn't know that!
You know what's great about these reports from Johnn? They're in clean enough handwriting, and my French is good enough, that I can sight-read them! Not as quickly as English, obviously, but enough to be able to do some real research. Having them digitized is cool! Thank you, Danes!
Though I can't find anything about Suhm stepping down as envoy, which is annoying. Johnn talks about Polentz's arrival as envoy, and then Lynar's, but nothing about Suhm's departure.
Very glad to hear that you were not limited by my failure to get to the Copenhagen archives, and that you found the info you needed!
So now neither Luzula nor I have to go to Copenhagen! More time for other places to visit! Ha ha! More time to spend on doing stuff around my farm, more like.
On the 2nd of this month, all the members of the said Council, who had come here the day before, assembled at the Office of the Auditor General, at the Grand Guard of the New Market, and having summoned Lieutenant Katte, they read before him first the sentence of the Council of War, which he listened to with great sang-froid, but when they then came to read the King's order, stating that his head would be cut off, he lost all composure to the point of shedding tears in abundance; which extremely touched the whole Council.
Yet another reminder that "boys/men don't cry" didn't really become engrained until the 19th century, even in militaristic cultures like Prussia. It is of course very human to cry when hearing your death sentence, especially after hearing a reprieve right before that. (I mean, prison isn't great, either, but undoubtedly Katte, like FW himself, assumed "for life" would mean for FW's life, not Katte's, and that Fritz would commute the sentence as soon as he got on the throne. So basically he first hears he's going to live, and then he's going to die, which must have been additionally heavy.
I did renember the two letters from Granddad Wartensleben, they come up in Jürgen Loh's account.
I also hadn't realized that in Berlin, no one was sure why Katte was being taken to Küstrin, though Johnn wrote that nobody could think of any other reason than to make Fritz watch. It would be strange, Johnn wrote, to send him there in order to pardon him.
I don't know about "no one", but Stratemann the eternal optimist and Disney-fier of FW certainly was convinced FW would pardon Katte (and interpreted the back and thro of messages between FW and the military tribunal as the tribunal wanting to condemn Katte and FW wanting to pardon him - right until the end and until he got the news of the beheading. I'm not sure how he interpreted the move to Küstrin, but it might have been "to commute Katte's sentence to imprisonment", too.
Anyway, no wonder that Katte told the guy from his regiment when the later wanted to cheer him up and talked about a last minute pardon "no, the tyrant will see blood". He may have doubted it and hoped for mercy right unil hearing his sentence, but not therafter.
Oh, wow, Johnn is saying Seckendorff appears very annoyed at not having been able to obtain mercy from FW for Lieutenant Katte, who was his (Seckendorff's) relative. I didn't know that!
Me neither. I mean, with all the nobility intermarrying for centuries, it doesn't surprise me, but if they are really closely related (as in, within the last two generations before Katte), it would, because you'd think it came up before. Seckendorff, as a reminder, is not Austrian himself though in Austrian/Imperial service at this point, he's Franconian, specifically, from the Ansbach area, and Ansbach is currently ruled by a sideline from the Hohenzollern family (which Fritz' sister Friederike marries into), so I could see some cross connections of Brandenburg and Ansbach nobililty happening.
I don't think it comes up in the correspondence between Eugene and Seckendorff, though? Otherwise I doubt Eugene would have been as tactless as to say "I was sorry for Katte, but now I've read the punctae, I guess he was guilty"?
Re: Suhm's departure - maybe I misremember, but I think it was Stratemann who heard the (wrong) rumour he'd end up in Königsstein because he'd lost his patron? If so, there might be more in Stratemann that I overlooked back when I read his dispastches, as Suhm wasn't my priority back then.
So basically he first hears he's going to live, and then he's going to die, which must have been additionally heavy.
I know, I was thinking that's got to be one of the worst possible ways to hear that! First false hope, then crushing doom.
Anyway, no wonder that Katte told the guy from his regiment when the later wanted to cheer him up and talked about a last minute pardon "no, the tyrant will see blood". He may have doubted it and hoped for mercy right unil hearing his sentence, but not therafter.
Yuuuup. Also, as we've talked about, neither the "the tyrant demands blood" nor the "lost all composure to the point of shedding tears in abundance" make it into the traditional accounts, in which he's just the perfect victim throughout.
I don't think it comes up in the correspondence between Eugene and Seckendorff, though? Otherwise I doubt Eugene would have been as tactless as to say "I was sorry for Katte, but now I've read the punctae, I guess he was guilty"?
Ooh, yeah, good point!
Re: Suhm's departure - maybe I misremember, but I think it was Stratemann who heard the (wrong) rumour he'd end up in Königsstein because he'd lost his patron? If so, there might be more in Stratemann that I overlooked back when I read his dispastches, as Suhm wasn't my priority back then.
No, I think you're right, but since Stratemann's information is sooo bad, I was hoping for more detail from a more reliable Danish source! Not that the Danes always get it right, but sometimes they have the goods. Maybe instead of going to Copenhagen, I should go to Dresden. ;)
But on November 8, while Johnn thinks that this young man's head is already off (he is correct), some people are apparently still holding out hope for a pardon from FW at the very moment of execution. They don't get the news until November 8.
That should say they don't get the news (or at least Johnn doesn't report it) until November 12.
Cahn, remember that the council of war recommended life (i.e. until FW died) imprisonment, and FW upgraded the sentence.
>:(((((((((((((((((
Oh, wow, Johnn is saying Seckendorff appears very annoyed at not having been able to obtain mercy from FW for Lieutenant Katte, who was his (Seckendorff's) relative. I didn't know that!
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timeasmymeasure
Katte lost all countenance
Date: 2025-05-03 05:45 am (UTC)And then I suspected the passage might actually be in von Johnn's reports, and was trying to recruit
In the last week, I even started planning a Europe trip for next year, in which I was going to visit the Copenhagen archives myself, if Luzula didn't have time by then!
Well, look no further: it *is* Johnn and it is digitized! And here is what Johnn wrote:
On the 2nd of this month, all the members of the said Council, who had come here the day before, assembled at the Office of the Auditor General, at the Grand Guard of the New Market, and having summoned Lieutenant Katte, they read before him first the sentence of the Council of War, which he listened to with great sang-froid, but when they then came to read the King's order, stating that his head would be cut off, he lost all composure to the point of shedding tears in abundance; which extremely touched the whole Council.
Cahn, remember that the council of war recommended life (i.e. until FW died) imprisonment, and FW upgraded the sentence.
So now neither Luzula nor I have to go to Copenhagen! More time for other places to visit!
Reading Johnn's reports a little further, I didn't remember or had forgotten that Grandpa Wartensleben wrote *two* letters to FW begging for mercy. To the first one, Johnn said he got the reply that we know about, that Katte deserved an entirely different kind of death (i.e. to be torn apart with red-hot pincers), but out of consideration for his family, FW went with a clean beheading. To the second letter, FW made no reply.
I also hadn't realized that in Berlin, no one was sure why Katte was being taken to Küstrin, though Johnn wrote that nobody could think of any other reason than to make Fritz watch. It would be strange, Johnn wrote, to send him there in order to pardon him.
But on November 8, while Johnn thinks that this young man's head is already off (he is correct), some people are apparently still holding out hope for a pardon from FW at the very moment of execution. They don't get the news until November 8.
Oh, wow, Johnn is saying Seckendorff appears very annoyed at not having been able to obtain mercy from FW for Lieutenant Katte, who was his (Seckendorff's) relative. I didn't know that!
You know what's great about these reports from Johnn? They're in clean enough handwriting, and my French is good enough, that I can sight-read them! Not as quickly as English, obviously, but enough to be able to do some real research. Having them digitized is cool! Thank you, Danes!
Though I can't find anything about Suhm stepping down as envoy, which is annoying. Johnn talks about Polentz's arrival as envoy, and then Lynar's, but nothing about Suhm's departure.
Re: Katte lost all countenance
Date: 2025-05-03 10:58 am (UTC)So now neither Luzula nor I have to go to Copenhagen! More time for other places to visit!
Ha ha! More time to spend on doing stuff around my farm, more like.
Re: Katte lost all countenance
Date: 2025-05-03 11:00 am (UTC)Re: Katte lost all countenance
Date: 2025-05-03 11:37 am (UTC)Yet another reminder that "boys/men don't cry" didn't really become engrained until the 19th century, even in militaristic cultures like Prussia. It is of course very human to cry when hearing your death sentence, especially after hearing a reprieve right before that. (I mean, prison isn't great, either, but undoubtedly Katte, like FW himself, assumed "for life" would mean for FW's life, not Katte's, and that Fritz would commute the sentence as soon as he got on the throne. So basically he first hears he's going to live, and then he's going to die, which must have been additionally heavy.
I did renember the two letters from Granddad Wartensleben, they come up in Jürgen Loh's account.
I also hadn't realized that in Berlin, no one was sure why Katte was being taken to Küstrin, though Johnn wrote that nobody could think of any other reason than to make Fritz watch. It would be strange, Johnn wrote, to send him there in order to pardon him.
I don't know about "no one", but Stratemann the eternal optimist and Disney-fier of FW certainly was convinced FW would pardon Katte (and interpreted the back and thro of messages between FW and the military tribunal as the tribunal wanting to condemn Katte and FW wanting to pardon him - right until the end and until he got the news of the beheading. I'm not sure how he interpreted the move to Küstrin, but it might have been "to commute Katte's sentence to imprisonment", too.
Anyway, no wonder that Katte told the guy from his regiment when the later wanted to cheer him up and talked about a last minute pardon "no, the tyrant will see blood". He may have doubted it and hoped for mercy right unil hearing his sentence, but not therafter.
Oh, wow, Johnn is saying Seckendorff appears very annoyed at not having been able to obtain mercy from FW for Lieutenant Katte, who was his (Seckendorff's) relative. I didn't know that!
Me neither. I mean, with all the nobility intermarrying for centuries, it doesn't surprise me, but if they are really closely related (as in, within the last two generations before Katte), it would, because you'd think it came up before. Seckendorff, as a reminder, is not Austrian himself though in Austrian/Imperial service at this point, he's Franconian, specifically, from the Ansbach area, and Ansbach is currently ruled by a sideline from the Hohenzollern family (which Fritz' sister Friederike marries into), so I could see some cross connections of Brandenburg and Ansbach nobililty happening.
I don't think it comes up in the correspondence between Eugene and Seckendorff, though? Otherwise I doubt Eugene would have been as tactless as to say "I was sorry for Katte, but now I've read the punctae, I guess he was guilty"?
Re: Suhm's departure - maybe I misremember, but I think it was Stratemann who heard the (wrong) rumour he'd end up in Königsstein because he'd lost his patron? If so, there might be more in Stratemann that I overlooked back when I read his dispastches, as Suhm wasn't my priority back then.
Re: Katte lost all countenance
Date: 2025-05-03 02:04 pm (UTC)I know, I was thinking that's got to be one of the worst possible ways to hear that! First false hope, then crushing doom.
Anyway, no wonder that Katte told the guy from his regiment when the later wanted to cheer him up and talked about a last minute pardon "no, the tyrant will see blood". He may have doubted it and hoped for mercy right unil hearing his sentence, but not therafter.
Yuuuup. Also, as we've talked about, neither the "the tyrant demands blood" nor the "lost all composure to the point of shedding tears in abundance" make it into the traditional accounts, in which he's just the perfect victim throughout.
I don't think it comes up in the correspondence between Eugene and Seckendorff, though? Otherwise I doubt Eugene would have been as tactless as to say "I was sorry for Katte, but now I've read the punctae, I guess he was guilty"?
Ooh, yeah, good point!
Re: Suhm's departure - maybe I misremember, but I think it was Stratemann who heard the (wrong) rumour he'd end up in Königsstein because he'd lost his patron? If so, there might be more in Stratemann that I overlooked back when I read his dispastches, as Suhm wasn't my priority back then.
No, I think you're right, but since Stratemann's information is sooo bad, I was hoping for more detail from a more reliable Danish source! Not that the Danes always get it right, but sometimes they have the goods. Maybe instead of going to Copenhagen, I should go to Dresden. ;)
Re: Katte lost all countenance
Date: 2025-05-03 02:08 pm (UTC)That should say they don't get the news (or at least Johnn doesn't report it) until November 12.
Re: Katte lost all countenance
Date: 2025-05-05 01:41 am (UTC)>:(((((((((((((((((
Oh, wow, Johnn is saying Seckendorff appears very annoyed at not having been able to obtain mercy from FW for Lieutenant Katte, who was his (Seckendorff's) relative. I didn't know that!
Oh interesting! Also: uggggh FW :(