I, otoh, have never heard the gloves in winter story. Also as I recall - and of course I could be wrong - it they weren‘t kid cadets but actual soldiers. I think that might be from Seckendorff‘s letter to Eugene about Fritz‘ daily schedule and how he looks like an old man at 12.
Maybe so, but that's not what many of his biographers say:
Asprey:
He put his son into uniform at the age of five. Characteristically, in a day when other princelings wore colonel's rank in the cradle, the Crown Prince of Prussia became a non-commissioned officer charged with drilling a group of nobles his own age.
MacDonogh:
At the age of six, Frederick had his own company of cadets to drill: 131 boys to command at will.
Schieder:
When the Prince was only six years old, the king created a "Crown Prince Cadet Company" for him of a hundred and thirty boys. ("Knaben")
Goldsmith:
When he was five years old a miniature cadet corps was organized for his benefit.
Abbott:
When the child was but six years of age his father organized a miniature soldiers’ company for him, consisting of one hundred lads.
Oster:
When his son was five years old, he named him the colonel of a cadet regiment that consisted of 131 boys. ("Jungen")
Now, the regiment Fritz had that was given to AW in 1730, that was a real regiment. But the one he was given when he was five or six, I haven't found anyone saying that. Blanning doesn't specify the age, but he cites Schieder as his source, so presumably he also means boys.
I'll check Seckendorff when I get the chance, but I don't remember it being in there, and that letter was written 8 years later (at which point I think Fritz had a real regiment).
As for gloves...
Blanning:
It was in 1724 that foreign diplomats began to report incidents of paternal disapproval of what was judged to be "effeminacy"— the wearing of gloves when hunting on a cold day, for example, or the use of a silver three-pronged fork rather than the steel two-pronged implement favored by soldiers.
Lavisse:
He had a terrible scene with his son for wearing gloves at the hunt on a bitter cold day.
Mitford:
He was always in trouble: was beaten for wearing gloves in cold weather.
Oster:
Friedrich Wilhelm needed no great excuse to get physical...It sufficed if the crown prince dared to put on gloves on an ice cold day in the middle of winter.
I suspect the reason you've never encountered the glove story is I suspect 20th and 21st century references go back to Lavisse (Blanning is the only one who gives a citation, and his is Lavisse), and I suspect Lavisse gets it from a French envoy report (probably Rottembourg). As you can see from Oster, the story has entered German scholarship, but I suspect only recently.
I will do some more digging into primary sources as I get the chance. If I could kick this insomnia, it would help! (If not for the insomnia, Fredersdorf would be freaking done by now.)
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
Re: Citation questions
Date: 2025-02-12 05:26 am (UTC)Re: Citation questions
Date: 2025-02-12 01:31 pm (UTC)Asprey:
He put his son into uniform at the age of five. Characteristically, in a day when other princelings wore colonel's rank in the cradle, the Crown Prince of Prussia became a non-commissioned officer charged with drilling a group of nobles his own age.
MacDonogh:
At the age of six, Frederick had his own company of cadets to drill: 131 boys to command at will.
Schieder:
When the Prince was only six years old, the king created a "Crown Prince Cadet Company" for him of a hundred and thirty boys. ("Knaben")
Goldsmith:
When he was five years old a miniature cadet corps was organized for his benefit.
Abbott:
When the child was but six years of age his father organized a miniature soldiers’ company for him, consisting of one hundred lads.
Oster:
When his son was five years old, he named him the colonel of a cadet regiment that consisted of 131 boys. ("Jungen")
Now, the regiment Fritz had that was given to AW in 1730, that was a real regiment. But the one he was given when he was five or six, I haven't found anyone saying that. Blanning doesn't specify the age, but he cites Schieder as his source, so presumably he also means boys.
I'll check Seckendorff when I get the chance, but I don't remember it being in there, and that letter was written 8 years later (at which point I think Fritz had a real regiment).
As for gloves...
Blanning:
It was in 1724 that foreign diplomats began to report incidents of paternal disapproval of what was judged to be "effeminacy"— the wearing of gloves when hunting on a cold day, for example, or the use of a silver three-pronged fork rather than the steel two-pronged implement favored by soldiers.
Lavisse:
He had a terrible scene with his son for wearing gloves at the hunt on a bitter cold day.
Mitford:
He was always in trouble: was beaten for wearing gloves in cold weather.
Oster:
Friedrich Wilhelm needed no great excuse to get physical...It sufficed if the crown prince dared to put on gloves on an ice cold day in the middle of winter.
I suspect the reason you've never encountered the glove story is I suspect 20th and 21st century references go back to Lavisse (Blanning is the only one who gives a citation, and his is Lavisse), and I suspect Lavisse gets it from a French envoy report (probably Rottembourg). As you can see from Oster, the story has entered German scholarship, but I suspect only recently.
I will do some more digging into primary sources as I get the chance. If I could kick this insomnia, it would help! (If not for the insomnia, Fredersdorf would be freaking done by now.)