Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 43

[cahn]

Still going! Still clearing Fritz's valet/chamberlain Fredersdorf's name from the calumny enshrined in wikipedia that he was dismissed for financial irregularities!

Comments

Re: Algarotti/Glasow???

[mildred_of_midgard]

Quick findings before work: Leining is saying that he's surprised Algarotti is still using this address, since he already let Algarotti know 4 weeks before that Glasow is no longer present in the capacity of valet. So...was Glasow handling Fritz's correspondence with Algarotti? I know Catt did later in the war, so maybe it's not terribly surprising. But then I don't understand why all the drama around "I'm enclosing the letter and I don't plan to hand it over immediately"--that made me think it was intended for Glasow, not Fritz!

Anyway, if you can make anything of my first passthrough, here it is:

Ich habe dero Schreiben von 27te m.p. umbst dem Brief des
Grafen Algarotti erhalten, und noch [zu]X[st]Xung dXXselben da[rin]
eine Einlage für der Abbe de Prades gefunden, dem ich selbige
auch zugestellet habe. Es wundert mich, daß der Herr Graf seine
Brief noch immer ünter Glasows Adresse einsendet, da ich ihm
doch schon von XXXgen al[t] 4 Wochen gemeldet, das dieser Mann
in der qualite eines Kammers Dines nicht mehr existirt.
Vor 8 Tagen habe [wie]der an ihn geschrieben, und [vermüt]lich
[wir]d XXsXun[st]ige diese Adresse nicht wieder zuXXXXsche[m|rn] [k]ö[mm|nn]en.

If not, I'll try to go back over it this evening and fill in more blanks and make more corrections. (This is only the first paragraph, btw, there's 3 and a half more pages.)

Re: Algarotti/Glasow???

[selenak]

I'll translate when I can, but let me point out one possibility based on precedence: I dimly recall that one of the few letters from Fredersdorf to Fritz (instead of the other way around) in the Richter edited correspondence contains the observation that since Algarottti's absence seems to be permanent this time, should his salary (as an academy member or secret councillor, don't remember which one) still be paid?

I.e. what Glasow handled were money matter. Which isn't the sexiest explanation, but it does make sense since Algarotti presumably still gets, if not his complete salary, a pension and/or the occasional present from the Royal Purse. And Leining told him that this doesn't run via Glasow anymore.

Abbe de Prades: remind me again, he doesn't get busted as a spy until 1758, doesn't he? Also, I do remember both Algarotti and Voltaire (and the Marquis D'Argens) recced him as a reader in the first place since he needed a job post banishment from France.

I very much doubt Glasow handled the actual Fritz/Algarotti correspondance, in the sense of writing it, because as opposed to Henri de Catt, there's no way Glasow knew enough high level French for that. But if he took care of Algarotti's pension (or was supposed to), he presumably was able to forward letters as well, and Fritz might assume spies were less likely to be interested in a letter from Algarotti to Friedrich Christian Glasow than in a letter from Algarotti to Frederick the Great.

Re: Algarotti/Glasow???

[mildred_of_midgard]

I dimly recall that one of the few letters from Fredersdorf to Fritz (instead of the other way around) in the Richter edited correspondence contains the observation that since Algarottti's absence seems to be permanent this time, should his salary (as an academy member or secret councillor, don't remember which one) still be paid?

Ah, right, I dimly remember the salary discussion too. Okay, that makes sense. It makes far more sense than any sexy explanations!

Abbe de Prades: remind me again, he doesn't get busted as a spy until 1758, doesn't he?

1757 according to Wikipedia, but I don't have time to confirm. But I do vaguely remember it in connection with Rossbach, so maybe in the second half of the year.

I very much doubt Glasow handled the actual Fritz/Algarotti correspondance, in the sense of writing it, because as opposed to Henri de Catt, there's no way Glasow knew enough high level French for that.

I mean, I was very surprised to see Glasow involved in the correspondence!

But if he took care of Algarotti's pension (or was supposed to), he presumably was able to forward letters as well, and Fritz might assume spies were less likely to be interested in a letter from Algarotti to Friedrich Christian Glasow than in a letter from Algarotti to Frederick the Great.

That does make sense! Thank you for coming up with a plausible explanation for this.

I still share your surprise that the hot young model got entrusted with this much responsibility, but I guess there you have it.

Manger on Leining

[selenak]

Ha, my guess that Manger might have listed Leining as he did Fredersdorf & Glasow under "people who were not building masters but who carried out the King's orders towards them" paid off.

The order is really Fredersdorf - Glasow - Leining - Neuffer - etc. I did reread the Fredersdorf chapter, and it reminded me that while Manger has some criticism (he thinks Fredersdorf was smart but also nuts with the alchemy stuff, and liked money a lot, so Manger includes asides like "he fell in love with the daughter of rich banker Daum or with her money") and thus is by no means a Fredersdorf apologist, still ends his Fredersdorff chapter with: "It remains to be said that Fredersdorf due to a very painful illness could not accompagny the King on campaign anymore in 1756, but had to remain in Potsdam. He still was one of the few who enjoyed the King's favour until their death. For when the King 1758 received the news of his death in Dresden, people supposedly noticed tears in his eyes."

(Page 650 of Manger's book, if you want to quote it.) Then comes the Glasow paragraph which I translated in totem in the Glasow post at Rheinsberg, and then it's time for:

Friedrich Wilhelm Leining, Sergeant with the first Bataillon Leibfußgarde and Lieutenant with the Army, took Glasow's position as Secret Chamberlain, but had little to do with building matters. For example on February 18th 1752 he forwarded news about the assigned rest sum of the 23325 Taler for the construction of the Colonnades.

And that's it, except for the letter in question quoted in the footnote, which is again about the money transferred and which Neuffer (the next guy) is supposed to co-sign the receipt of. It's not surprising Manger didn't see much more of Leining, since Manger remained in Potsdam throughout the war, and Leining it seems remained with Fritz in the field.

Anyway, seems I was wrong about Leining being from the civil service. Fritz must have drafted him on the spot. "Leibfußgarde" - "Personal guard on foot?" Was that a thing? Help? Anyway, Presumably he came across as responsible, and had been around Fritz enough so Fredersdorf was familiar with him and vice versa.

Re: Manger on Leining

[mildred_of_midgard]

Proper response when time permits. For now:

For example on February 18th 1752

Typo for 1762.

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[selenak]

I did receive your letter from the 27th about the letter of Count Algarotti, and in it I found an inserted page to the Abbe de Pradoes which I handed over to the later as well. I'm surprised that the Count is still mailing his letters addressed to Glasow, since I did inform him some four weeks ago that this man in his capacity as valet doesn't exist anymore. Eight days ago, I've written to him again, and I guess the there won't be any more letters to this address.

As I said in the other comment, I think most likely Glasow handled payments to Algarotti and was also a convenient mailing address - also, sending letters is very expensive* if you're not a royal with your own couriers, so of course Algarotti would include his financial mail, his personal mail to Fritz and mail to the Abbe de Prades in the same post - just like previous letters might have gone to Fredersdorf, and now the letters to go Leining.

*Expensive: if most famous German female poet Annette von Droste-Hülshoff (first half of the 19th century) had to pay for her entire correspondence as opposed to handing her letters to friends and relations travelling in the general direction of the recepients a lot of the time, she'd have to use her entire income - 800 Reichstaler a year, which she inherited - just to pay for the mail.

All this said, there's still the fact that Leining asks Fredersdorf what to do about the Algarotti letter in the first place if it's that straightforward, and here I think it's entirely possible that Leining did wonder whether Algarotti might possibly have been entangled in one way or the other with Glasow and that this was above his paygrade. Presumably Fredersdorf calmed him down and reminded him that international mail can easily be delayed or get lost, especially with a war going on, so Algarotti probably hasn't received his (Leining's) first letter yet and wrote to Glasow in all innocence.

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[mildred_of_midgard]

Thank you for the translation! I am hard at work on another letter that may or may not be ready today.

As I said in the other comment, I think most likely Glasow handled payments to Algarotti

I note from our library's chronology that the Algarotti's salary was cut off in 1754, i.e. 3 years earlier. Which is not to say there couldn't be any other financial matters between them, or even just a salary 3 years in arrears (though I submit that if you weren't getting money from Fritz between 1754 and 1756, your odds of getting it between 1756 and 1763 were slim).

and was also a convenient mailing address - also, sending letters is very expensive* if you're not a royal with your own couriers, so of course Algarotti would include his financial mail, his personal mail to Fritz and mail to the Abbe de Prades in the same post - just like previous letters might have gone to Fredersdorf, and now the letters to go Leining.

Very true, makes sense.

if you're not a royal with your own couriers

Or a soldier in the Prussian army. Fritz made sure the soldiers had a post for letters back home that I think was free, but at least was affordable.

All this said, there's still the fact that Leining asks Fredersdorf what to do about the Algarotti letter in the first place if it's that straightforward, and here I think it's entirely possible that Leining did wonder whether Algarotti might possibly have been entangled in one way or the other with Glasow and that this was above his paygrade.

Yeah, as you know, Leining freaking out was what triggered my minor freakout ;).

Presumably Fredersdorf calmed him down and reminded him that international mail can easily be delayed or get lost, especially with a war going on

Yeah, I mean, Algarotti died on May 3, 1764, and Fritz was still writing to him on June 1, because the notification of his death didn't reach Fritz until June 12. And that wasn't even with a war on! Calm down, Leining.

But in all sympathy, this really must have been a baptism of fire for Leining: taking over after an embezzlement scandal during war for a king with a touchy temper. *And* he was apparently pulled out of the army and not the civil service. No wonder he's writing to Fredersdorf all the time!

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[selenak]

But in all sympathy, this really must have been a baptism of fire for Leining: taking over after an embezzlement scandal during war for a king with a touchy temper. *And* he was apparently pulled out of the army and not the civil service. No wonder he's writing to Fredersdorf all the time!

Quite. Even if he was career minded, this was probably not how he envisioned a promotion! BTW, it also says something about Fredersdorf that even in a very ill state, he's still willing to help Leining out instead of saying "don't bother me anymore, I'm done with this shit". I mean, it's not like Fredersdorf has anything to lose by refusing to help, or to win by helping. He simply does it as a favour to Leining, to the state and to Fritz. (And presumably is grateful to get news about Fritz beyond army bulletins, too.)

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[mildred_of_midgard]

BTW, it also says something about Fredersdorf that even in a very ill state, he's still willing to help Leining out instead of saying "don't bother me anymore, I'm done with this shit". I mean, it's not like Fredersdorf has anything to lose by refusing to help, or to win by helping. He simply does it as a favour to Leining, to the state and to Fritz.

Omg, I know so many people like that, and if you spend time on Ask a Manager, you'll see lots more. :'D I think there's a certain *type* who has a finger in every pie, and who is also the kind of person you keep consulting after they retire, and who is also the kind of person who will keep responding after they retire. And that is very Fredersdorf.

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[mildred_of_midgard]

All this said, there's still the fact that Leining asks Fredersdorf what to do about the Algarotti letter in the first place if it's that straightforward, and here I think it's entirely possible that Leining did wonder whether Algarotti might possibly have been entangled in one way or the other with Glasow

You know, if he only found an insert to the Abbe de Prades after Fredersdorf sent it back, maybe he didn't even open the letter the first time, or at least read it closely enough to see if it was this straightforward? Maybe he just freaked out at the arrival of a letter to Glasow's address and forwarded the whole kaboodle to Fredersdorf?

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[selenak]

Maybe he just freaked out at the arrival of a letter to Glasow's address and forwarded the whole kaboodle to Fredersdorf?

That's my own interpretation. Basically, if there's something treasonous or incriminating in the letter, Fredersdorf will know how to handle it, and if the letter is harmless, Fredersdorf will give it back.

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[mildred_of_midgard]

Makes sense. And you know, if he didn't open it at all, maybe he was thinking not only that it was above his paygrade and he wasn't touching this with a ten-foot pole, but also that if there *was* something incriminating, he didn't want to be accused of having tampered with it if Fritz instinctively trusts Algarotti over Leining. So I could see him just passing it on unopened to Fredersdorf and only finding the insert to Abbe de Prades when Fredersdorf sent it back.

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[cahn]

I'm just registering here how much fun this whole thread was for me, sexytimes hypothesis and more reasonable hypothesis and Leining possibly minorly freaking out and all :D

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[mildred_of_midgard]

I would not have freaked out if Leining had not freaked out first! But after the Benda letter, omg, I see why he did! (This is why one must read the correspondence in order and not skip haphazardly around!)

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[selenak]

IKR? He must have felt monkeypwed there for a looong moment before Fredersdorf gave all clear. Another potential edifying correspondence? Where's my popcorn. WITH COUNT ALGAROTTI? Oh noes!

Re: Algarotti/Glasow??? - Translation

[mildred_of_midgard]

ROFL.

Speaking of edifying correspondences, for an exchange between the treasurer and his predecessor that should have been boring and bureaucratic, this correspondence has been surprisingly edifying in surprisingly many ways!