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cahnLast post, we had (among other things) Danish kings and their favorites; Louis XIV and Philippe d'Orléans; reviews of a very shippy book about Katte, a bad Jacobite novel, and a great book about clothing; a fic about Émilie du Châtelet and Voltaire; and a review of a set of entertaining Youtube history videos about Frederick the Great.
Braubach on Eugene and Olympia
Date: 2023-03-15 09:57 pm (UTC)I just got to the part where Eugene is leaving France, so we've covered a lot of Olympia. Here's Braubach's take:
Now what was true in all this? There can be no doubt that Olympia was engaged in astrology and spiritism. She was a child of her time and, above all, a true child of her family: it is said of her father that he was "a great astrologer" and Mazarin's superstition, which incidentally is said to have attached particular importance to the horoscopes provided by his brother-in-law Mancini, was world-famous. There are also reports of strange "séances" in the house of the Countess, in which apparitions were conjured up and a child was used as a medium in order to experience simultaneous events elsewhere. So it can also be assumed that she actually visited Voisin, and it can even be assumed to be true that cheeky remarks were made on her part. But it is questionable whether what she asked or said was meant seriously at all, and that she was still at that time thinking of the possibility of regaining the heart of the king is very unlikely.
So after she's exiled, she travels around a bit, and for a while she stays in Spain at the court of Carlos II. He's the one Selena calls "the genetic wonder": the super inbred one with the Habsburg chin and a host of physical and mental defects, and his death without heirs triggered the War of the Spanish Succession.
I knew from Wikipedia that he was nicknamed "the bewitched" because he had so many problems that it was believed this couldn't possibly be
inbreedingnatural, there must have been an evil spell cast on him. What I didn't realize is that he specifically accused Olympia of bewitching him and ordered her to leave the country.She was later, by people like Saint-Simon, accused of poisoning Carlos's first wife, Marie Louise (daughter of Liselotte and Philippe le Gay), who died suddenly at age 26, but Braubach says Saint-Simon, who is describing stuff that happened in a different country when he was only 14, gets all his facts extremely wrong *and* that the motives were not there (the queen was the only reason Olympia was even welcome in Madrid), and that even contemporaries who thought Olympia dabbled in witchcraft and could kill with her eyes, didn't accuse her of that particular suspicious death.
Wikipedia, btw, says Marie Louise probably died of appendicitis, Braubach says she could have been poisoned, but not by Olympia.
On the subject of Eugene's activities in France, Braubach points out the same thing Selena says: that Eugene's name is never mentioned in the big scandals. So where Pigaillem (who, unlike Braubach, does not believe in footnotes or source citing) is getting his info, I don't know.
Braubach does, predictably, say that pretty much only Liselotte ever accused Eugene of being gay, and she was upset about him making war on "her second homeland," whereas Pigaillem at least cites a contemporary envoy report from before Eugene left France. I imagine Braubach is probably the one everyone else, like McKay, is getting this argument from.
The logistics of the escape: Pigaillem says Eugene and Conti fled France "disguised as women from head to toe." Braubach says, "die der Postillon anfangs für verkleidete Mädchen gehalten hatte," which I can only read as, "whom the postillion had originally taken for girls in disguise." That sentence confuses me. Selena, ca that mean that they were disguised as women and thus the postillion originally took them to be women? I.e. wearing women's clothes? Because my first reading would be that they were wearing men's clothes but were so effeminate-looking the postillion thought they were girls dressed up as men. But that's not what Pigaillem says.
Okay, why am I asking Selena when this is Braubach and he indulges my every scholarly whim with hundreds of footnotes per chapter? The original is not in German, the original would be in French.
...
Found it! The original text from Louvois--thank you, Google Books--reads:
...que deux hommes y étant arrivés dans un carrosse de louage, dont l'un avoit un justaucorps rouge, se bottèrent et montèrent à cheval; le postillon crut que c'étoit deux filles.
...that two men having arrived there in a hired carriage, one of whom had a red coat, got into their boots and mounted their horses; the postillion thought it was two girls.
It's not entirely clear to me that they were disguised as women from head to toe, Pigaillem. I think my original Braubach reading is closer. For *some* reason, the postillion took them for girls, either because they had effeminate bodies and/or presentation in men's clothes, or because they were wearing women's clothes. But now that I know they were mounting their horses when this happened, I'm inclined to think they were somewhat feminine-looking but wearing riding breeches, and the postillion thought they were women who had put on breeches to go riding, a la Caroline Mathilde!
So in conclusion, while I'm willing to believe the envoy report Pigaillem turned up that said Eugene was gay, I'm skeptical of a number of his other claims about Eugene's habits (not that disguising yourself as a woman to escape says anything about your regular habits anyway, ask BPC and Flora MacDonald), until further evidence emerges. Especially since Selena's reading of the eyewitness reports didn't turn up any evidence of his presence.
Not that Braubach would be inclined to include it; he goes all homophobic when saying that even though we have very little evidence outside of Liselotte, it's entirely possible Eugene had some unfortunate inclinations that he indulged when he was young and surrounded by a bad crowd in Paris, though he grew up into a very respectable ("manly chaste
PrussianSavoyard-Austrian", to borrow a phrase from Selena) general. ETA: I meant to add that this book was published in 1963.Anyway, that is the latest from Braubach, will let you know if anything else interesting turns up (or in Pigaillem, whom I do occasionally still read, although Danish has really taken over my French study time the last few weeks).
Re: Braubach on Eugene and Olympia
Date: 2023-03-16 04:58 pm (UTC)Not in the biological sense, though Liselotte did the majority of the raising. It's one of the two surviving daughters of Minette and Philippe le Gay.
Braubach does, predictably, say that pretty much only Liselotte ever accused Eugene of being gay, and she was upset about him making war on "her second homeland,"
Sigh.
It's not entirely clear to me that they were disguised as women from head to toe, Pigaillem. I think my original Braubach reading is closer.
*nods* Same here. I.e. Braubach appears to be better at translating Louvois than Pigaillem. The Postillon thought they were women. (Meaning at the very least young Eugene and young Conti were shaved and not into moustaches, btw.)
I meant to add that this book was published in 1963.
I figured, though there's always Charlotte P. the sibling basher and user of the "only Voltaire ever accused Fritz of being gay" argument in the 1970s, and I believe some of your Fritzian No-Homo'ing English language biographers published later than the 60s as well. But for a five volumes biography of Eugene, a later publication date would have been somewhat unlikely. (Though of course not impossible.)
Incidentally, I seem to recall, though alas I don't know where I've read it, that Seckendorff (the older, the Grumbkow buddy) asked Eugene whether he still gets erections and Eugene said no when everyone was getting bored on the Rhine in the mid 1730s. Which would imply that (Seckendorff thinks that) Eugene is familiar with the sensation and not from decades ago at least...
Re: Braubach on Eugene and Olympia
Date: 2023-03-16 05:26 pm (UTC)Right, yes, thank you!
Braubach appears to be better at translating Louvois than Pigaillem.
Which is ironic because one is a German translating French into German and the other is a Frenchman rendering French into French. I do not trust this Pigaillem. Unless maybe he had another source he's not telling us about, but given the nature of the detail and how few witnesses there were, I doubt it.
The Postillon thought they were women. (Meaning at the very least young Eugene and young Conti were shaved and not into moustaches, btw.)
Oh, yes, you're right, that's another implication of what they looked like. I'm going with "feminine-looking in riding breeches."
I believe some of your Fritzian No-Homo'ing English language biographers published later than the 60s as well.
1999. :( Relies heavily on Charlotte Pangels, too.
But for a five volumes biography of Eugene, a later publication date would have been somewhat unlikely. (Though of course not impossible.)
Haha, reading it, I remembered Hatton saying she only wished she thought a five-volume bio of Karl XII would sell, but unfortunately she only had the confidence to publish one volume, and after seeing all the amazing detail that's in Braubach, I wished even harder she'd copied Braubach and done five volumes on Karl XII! I will buy it, Hatton!
Incidentally, I seem to recall, though alas I don't know where I've read it, that Seckendorff (the older, the Grumbkow buddy) asked Eugene whether he still gets erections
Oh, I'd forgotten about this, but yes, I remember now! Thank you for reminding me. I think I was the one who reported it. Yeah, searching through salon tells me I reported Blanning wrote:
Christoph Ludwig von Seckendorf wrote in his secret diary for 1734 that Frederick was imitating Eugene’s laconic manner. He also recorded the following conversation: “The Prince of Anhalt-Dessau: ‘Does Your Highness still get an erection?’ Prince Eugene, taking a pinch of snuff: ‘No, I do not get an erection.’
which means you would have read it later when you read younger Seckendorff.
Which would imply that (Seckendorff thinks that) Eugene is familiar with the sensation and not from decades ago at least...
Technically he could be getting erections without acting on them, but yeah, the more likely implication is that Seckendorff is asking in the context of being sexually active. (Though he could be asking about nocturnal emissions, that doesn't strike me as really implausible for two men to discuss.)
Re: Braubach on Eugene and Olympia
Date: 2023-03-17 07:12 am (UTC)I just checked, and it seems Eugene remained moustache-less throughout his life. At quick googling, this was about the youngest portrait I could find:
And okay, a few years younger still and in a different outfit, maybe the postillon wasn't lying to cover his behind with Louvois...
Erection dialogue: thanks for refreshing my memory, though in this case, it sounds like old Dessauer was the one to quiz Eugene about his erections (or lack of same), and Seckendorff just reported it/noted it down.
Though he could be asking about nocturnal emissions, that doesn't strike me as really implausible for two men to discuss.
Same here. The 18th century: where you could ask one one the most famous generals of his day about his erections and where there was a mighty fanboy argument in print about the state of Fritz' penis. Talk about too many dicks on the dancefloor....
(Okay, to be fair, and bearing Morgenstern's FW biography and Wilhelmine's unbowlderized memoirs in mind: also the century where the a King could discuss vagina smells with his buddies and a Queen could slander her future daughter-in-law by claiming she had ulcers in her posterior...)
19th century: OUR READERS MUST BE PROTECTED!
Georg Schnath in the Roaring 1920s: I'm with you, 19th century guys. THIS IS JUST TOO MUCH.
I forgot to say about Olympia Mancini, Eugene's mother, and Saint-Simon: otoh, Saint-Simon decades later became Ambassador in Spain (where he had to cope with Philippe the Regent's teenage daughter determined to piss off the entire royal family), so he might have heard some actual gossip, otoh, doesn't mean said gossip is true, and also, Saint-Simon providing an entire dialogue scene for Louis XIV to quiz the Marquis d'Effiat about the later having poisoned Minette on the Chevalier de Lorraine's orders, something for which supposedly only Louis and the Marquis were present, and which also happened decades earlier, makes me conclude Saint-Simon is not above fleshing out poison rumors for greater drama despite having no way of knowing whether they were true.
(Unless we assume the Marquis d'Effiat told Philippe the Regent who told Saint-Simon, but somehow I can't see d'Effiat going, so, about the time I poisoned your Dad's first wife - which btw don't worry, I'm not going to do to your Mom...)
Re: Braubach on Eugene and Olympia
Date: 2023-04-01 11:07 pm (UTC)Okay, I laughed out loud :P