Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 39

[cahn]

Last post, along with the usual 18th-century suspects, included the Ottonians; changing ideas of conception and women's sexual pleasure; Isabella of Parma (the one who fell in love, and vice versa, with her husband's sister); Henry IV and Bertha (and Henry's second wife divorcing him for "unspeakable sexual acts"). (Okay, Isabella of Parma was 18th century.)

Comments

Re: Nancy Goldstone has nothing on this one...

[mildred_of_midgard]

the world's first author of a Fritz/Algarotti story

Mobster!AU author beat me to it! She actually made Algarotti the one true long-lasting love of his life, Fredersdorf who? :P

I completely agree with you, and not just because of that gigantic Fritz financed tomb.

Yeah, Maupertuis got one too, right? But Algarotti got an orgasm poem, that I don't think Maupertuis or Duhan did. :PPP

Lady Mary: Of course he loved Algarotti! How could anyone not have Algarotti as their great love, is what I want to know.

</3

Re: Nancy Goldstone has nothing on this one...

[selenak]

...I still hope that someone at some point writes the story where Andrew Mitchell when Fritz makes him read his poetry has a look the orgasm poem and offers a beta based on personal experience.

Re: Nancy Goldstone has nothing on this one...

[mildred_of_midgard]

Convince me at an emotional level that Mitchell was a tasty dish and I'll see what I can do. :P (That is actually my problem with shipping Algarotti/Mitchell: while I'm intellectually sure Algarotti had good taste, I have no personal sense of Mitchell as sexy based on his Seven Years' War persona.)

Re: Nancy Goldstone has nothing on this one...

[selenak]

Hm, let‘s see. For starters, Mitchell is competent, courageous, and keeps his cool in very tricky situations, which you find appealing. His predecessors as British envoys weren‘t popular with Fritz, but he was, and not just for the subsidies. He‘s also Scottish no-nonsense like, which I can see an Algarotti who otherwise is busy flirting with Hervey and Lady Mary finding appealing, curious enough about the world to live nearly three years abroad as a young man on his prolonged Grand Tour. He‘s that rarity, a man capable of changing his opinion on people when provided with new data (see his 180% turnaround on Heinrich, going from „smug snake sure to sell out King and Country to the French“ to „my hero, shame that there can‘t be two suns in the sky at the same time!“) which an Algarotti hanging out with feuding British aristocrats or super neurotic brilliant Hohenzollern and lots of feuding Academians, all of whom are prone to go „my way or the high way!“ is bound to find relaxing. He lives through the Seven Years War with his personal sense of ethics intact (and thus finds the bombardment of Dresden barbaric, despite Saxony being the enemy and Prussia his ally). He sees through Henri de Catt! He has a sense of humor as evidenced not just by taking Fritz‘ poetry in good stride but by him being kind to young James Boswell after the war. And he must have been good in the sack, if Algarotti calls him the tastiest dish!

Fancast: Liam Neeson?

Re: Nancy Goldstone has nothing on this one...

[cahn]

I mean, I was going to say, I would go for that! :D and I'd forgotten more than half of what you mentioned! (But I have a really pronounced competency kink, and also a pronounced partiality for characters who can change their minds when provided with new data. (See also Neroon! :D ))

Also has a tragic backstory! (I think that was before the Seven Years War, right?)

Mitchell backstory

[selenak]

Tragic backstory: you mean his marriage, right? (I.e. fourteen years old Andrew being married by his greedy father to ten years old heiress Barbara, who died in childbirth herself at age 14 a few years later, upon which Andrew took off to the continent and never married again.) (BTW, that a ten years old could get legally married to a fourteen years old in Scotland in 1722, neither of them royals, is something else again and related to our other subject.)

Re: Mitchell backstory

[mildred_of_midgard]

What I remember about Scotland's age of consent is that Gretna Green, right on the border with England, was a popular elopement spot for English teenagers, because once you crossed the border with your illicit bf/gf, you could get married without your parents' permission.

Re: Mitchell backstory

[selenak]

That's what I remember about it, too, but in this case you have two minors, one of whom is by all criteria still a child, and an adult instigating the marriage between the two for blatantly financial reasons. Methinks Scottish law left a big loophole for abuse there!

Re: Mitchell backstory

[mildred_of_midgard]

I agree the situation was terrible! That poor girl.

(I am reminded, stepping outside our fandom for a minute, of how one of the Antarctic explorers who died with Scott, Lawrence Oates, was found recently to have fathered a child on some 11 year-old Scottish girl before setting off to the South Pole. Disappointingly few 21st century journalists were willing to call a spade a child rape, instead of going "he never knew he was a father" or something saccharine like that. Wikipedia at least has the decency.)

Re: Mitchell backstory

[cahn]

Yes! I'd forgotten exactly how young they were, omg. REALLY poor Barbara, but also poor Andrew :(

Re: Mitchell backstory

[selenak]

In case you're wondering why Barbara's mother went along with this, Mitchell Senior married her first. He really wanted all that money, I guess. :(

While we have no idea how young Andrew felt about all of this, him leaving as soon as he could, and not only never marrying again but not having a mistress (of any age) that we know of (and I think Lehndorff, who knew him pretty well, liked him, and does note down mistresses, would have mentioned one) allows some speculation. Also, one of the reason why he changes his opinion of Heinrich is that he sees Heinrich taking care of helpless people (in this case POWs and people from occupied territories), which, again, allows some speculation.

Re: Mitchell backstory

[mildred_of_midgard]

Also, one of the reason why he changes his opinion of Heinrich is that he sees Heinrich taking care of helpless people (in this case POWs and people from occupied territories), which, again, allows some speculation.

Oooh, I like this. Okay, that helps. Because a big problem with Mitchell and fic for me is that his work with Fritz in the Seven Years' War got him slotted into my brain under "coworker"--you may like him and you may think he's competent, but imagining his orgasms is Right Out!

Re: Mitchell backstory

[cahn]

In case you're wondering why Barbara's mother went along with this, Mitchell Senior married her first. He really wanted all that money, I guess. :(

:( I don't remember this from before and it is just the cherry on top of awful :(

him leaving as soon as he could, and not only never marrying again but not having a mistress (of any age) that we know of (and I think Lehndorff, who knew him pretty well, liked him, and does note down mistresses, would have mentioned one)

This I do remember from the earlier discussion, and it is why I just really felt for him in this whole horrible story <3

I had forgotten about Heinrich, but that is quite cool, both on Mitchell's side and on Heinrich's :D

Re: Nancy Goldstone has nothing on this one...

[mildred_of_midgard]

Lol! Okay, I will keep this in mind, thank you for the write-up! The orgasm poem and Mitchell offering feedback on it is something I've idly thought about before.

Of course, we all know I'm not writing anything this year (I got 4 hours of sleep last night and have now been awake for 21 hours), but who can know what next year holds! I have this idea that maybe, someday, I'll be able to read Germany comfortably and then I can let my brain focus on other things.

Re: Nancy Goldstone has nothing on this one...

[luzula]

*pops up at mention of a Scot*

He does sound potentially dishy! Would read the fic. : D

Andrew Mitchell

[selenak]

For more on Scottish Andrew Mitchell, British envoy to Prussia during the 7 Years War, see here my original write up of his papers, and here some additional information about him from a book I read later. That in his younger years, he had a fling with Algarotti isn't speculation, btw; we have it from the horse's mouth, as a letter survives in which Algarotti, writing from Hamburg suggests after his return to England dinner 'where you will certainly be the tastiest dish for me (le meilleur plat pour moi] ... If the wind continues as it is, I hope to embrace you in 4 or 5 days. Farewell, my dear friend ; love me and believe until death , F.A.'.