18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 38

[cahn]

Gonna go ahead and make this post even though Yuletide is coming...

But in the meantime, there has been some fic in the fandom posted!

Holding His Space (2503 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF, 18th Century CE Frederician RPF
Rating: Teen And Up Audiences
Warnings: Creator Chose Not To Use Archive Warnings
Relationships: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf/Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Characters: Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great
Additional Tags: Protectiveness, Domestic, Character Study
Summary:

Five times Fredersdorf has to stay behind - and one time Friedrich doesn't leave.

Using People (3392 words) by prinzsorgenfrei
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great/Hans Hermann von Katte
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Hans Hermann von Katte
Additional Tags: Fluff, Idiots in Love, reading plays aloud while gazing into each others eyes
Summary:

Friedrich had started to talk to him because he had thought of him as a bit of a ditz.
And now here he was. Here he was months later, bundled up in this very same man’s blankets with a cup of hot coffee in front of him, its scent mixing with that of Katte’s French perfume.
_
Fluffy One Shot about one traitorous Crown Prince and the sycophant he accidentally fell for.

Comments

Re: Tiny Terror FW: The Sequel

[mildred_of_midgard]

Tiny Terror FW is still one of the most apt monikers of all time!

For example, there's an entire essay about the way FW was presented by historians by Thomas Stamm-Kuhlmann which is very critical about said historians' dismissal of Wilhelmine's memoirs as being too biased to be worth considering and of the acceptance of the self stylizing of Prussian monarchs (both FW and Fritz) as having to do their grim duty and suffering the most for it.

Oh, good for Stamm-Kuhlmann!

Despite the choice was known only to God himself, therw were certain certae notitiae, certain hints which could allow some conclusions on one's own state of being chosen. These certae notitiae were based on virtuous conduct and faithful adherence to the teachings of the church.
Rebeur connected his student's flaws, the arrogant violent temper to this teaching, and young Friedrich Wilhelm quickly realised that his notitae were pointing towards eternal damnation.

This is interesting, thank you for the additional detail!

Up to and including the way Katte's Punctae mysteriously include a "And btw, Fritz, determinism is of the devi!" paragraph.

So while I'm sure FW's well-known opinions had something to do with the inclusion of this detail, ever since you turned up that one Hans Heinrich letter, plus the evidence that the last book Katte was reading was by Sherlock, a theologian who argued against predestination, I'm now leaning toward "Katte genuinely experienced a religious conversion/reversion to the religion of his childhood" and that his displays of piety were genuine.

But I still wouldn't nominate him for sainthood, given his religious fears probably contributed to making FW even more dangerous for everybody else...

Lol, well, while he was certainly martyred, and getting Tiny Terror FW to behave even a little bit was surely a miracle :P, yeah, I agree it didn't improve the situation at all. Turns out religious fanatics can be awful people too, Rebeur! (My wife got to the podcast episode on the Crusades yesterday, which came with a trigger warning by the podcaster, and now she's like, "...I don't wanna listen to any more history of the Germans.")

Re: Tiny Terror FW: The Sequel

[selenak]

I can‘t blame her re: the Crusades, though I would like to point out the story of the Crusades in France and England isn‘t any less vicious. BTW, one of the undeniable good things Henry IV did was establishing a protection privilege for the Jews of Worms. (Not least because they backed him against the Pope and some of his nobles, of course.)

Re: Katte, I agree that he was most likely sincere, but the letter to his father I think does not have anything about predestination in it. Not having read Sherlock, I don‘t know how dominant the predestination problem was in the book Katte read. But I do know it was a particular interest/childhood horror of FW‘s, hence my assumption that chances are Pastor Müller might have said something along the line of „and if you want to do the Crown Prince and your immortal soul a really big favor, tell him that predestination is of the devil“ on FW‘s behalf.

getting Tiny Terror FW to behave even a little bit was surely a miracle

Mind you, I‘m sure more than one student would have said something like „when I grow up, I‘m so going to behead you1“ to their teacher if they could have, but with Tiny Terror FW, one had to be aware - Rebeur certainly was - that he would have the power to. Also, let‘s not forget Prussian Severus Snape, i.e. F1‘s teacher Danckelmann, who wasn‘t beheaded but first elevated and then cast down and imprisoned, a contemporary precedence I don‘t doubt FW‘s teachers were aware.

The amazing thing is that his mother and grandmother seem to have thought Tiny Terror FW was adorable, for the most part, and that he did make some efforts on their behalf (posting for that David painting, finding paintings for Sophie Charlotte when he was in the Netherlands as a teenager, writing good boy letters to Sophie). I would speculate about the only child syndrome, but while that certainly came into it, Tiny Terror FW spent so much time in Hannover as a boy with his cousins that it only applies in that there were no alternate heirs and he knew it, not in that he didn‘t know what was like to be with other children his own rank.

G2: As if. I was always of higher rank. Rule Britannia!

Re: Tiny Terror FW: The Sequel

[mildred_of_midgard]

I can‘t blame her re: the Crusades, though I would like to point out the story of the Crusades in France and England isn‘t any less vicious.

Oh, for sure! The context is just that the alternatives weren't "history of the Crusades from other perspectives," but "other, non-history things she was listening to." And as it turns out, this only lasted 1 day and she is now on to Henry V. ;)

Not having read Sherlock, I don‘t know how dominant the predestination problem was in the book Katte read.

I haven't read it either, but when you first found it, I remember going and browsing it, and finding that 1) it is about the nature of providence, and 2) reconciling providence and free will, i.e. no predestination.

So while I agree that FW was on Katte's/Pastor Müller's mind, it's also possible that if Fritz and Katte had been chatting about their pro-predestination beliefs for the last year, and Katte was having a religious experience and reading specifically about providence, he might have sincerely wanted to change Fritz's mind too. He doesn't say anything specifically about predestination to Hans Heinrich, no, but that letter convinced me that his religious feelings were sincere, and so if he was reading Sherlock, it probably wasn't for show, but reflected what was really important to him in those last hours.

G2: As if. I was always of higher rank. Rule Britannia!

Hee! G2 vs FW never gets old. :D

luzula, if you're reading this, "Tiny Terror FW" goes back to a write-up Selena did back at the beginning of salon, summarizing F1's life from his own perspective, and it included this line that I still think is genius and still makes me laugh:

Our first boy didn't make it beyond a year, but tiny terror FW? Couldn't keep him down.

Re: Tiny Terror FW: The Sequel

[luzula]

luzula, if you're reading this
Thanks! I do track the post, so I literally do see all the comments, but sometimes I am swamped with other stuff or less interested in some topic, and then I just skim very quickly and don't actually read everything.

Re: Tiny Terror FW: The Sequel

[cahn]

hence my assumption that chances are Pastor Müller might have said something along the line of „and if you want to do the Crown Prince and your immortal soul a really big favor, tell him that predestination is of the devil“ on FW‘s behalf.

Hence my lifting of that line wholesale for writing a Punctae-centric fic :D

Also, let‘s not forget Prussian Severus Snape, i.e. F1‘s teacher Danckelmann, who wasn‘t beheaded but first elevated and then cast down and imprisoned, a contemporary precedence I don‘t doubt FW‘s teachers were aware.

Ohhhhh, right!

there were no alternate heirs and he knew it, not in that he didn‘t know what was like to be with other children his own rank.

G2: As if. I was always of higher rank. Rule Britannia!

ahahahaha!