18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 36

[cahn]

Starting a couple of comments earlier than usual to mention there are a couple of new salon fics! These probably both need canon knowledge.

felis ficlets on siblings!

Siblings (541 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 2/2
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Summary:

Three Fills for the 2022 Three Sentence Ficathon.

Chapter One: Protective Action / Babysitting at Rheinsberg (Frederick/Fredersdorf, William+Henry+Ferdinand)
Chapter Two: Here Be Lions (Wilhelmine)

Unsent Letters fic by me:

Letters for a Dead King (1981 words) by raspberryhunter
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen (1726-1802)
Characters: Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Additional Tags: Epistolary, Love/Hate, Talking To Dead People, Canonical Character Death, Dysfunctional Family
Summary:

Just because one's king and brother is dead doesn't mean one has to stop writing to him.

Comments

Re: Letters and Journals of Mrs Calderwood

[selenak]

Fritz, if you want to be incognito, you have to criticize your own works, and then for bonus points, try to fish for compliments from the people you're talking to. :P

Hang on, though, if he was having that discussion with the governor of two gentleman's sons, wouldn't that be....drumroll... Henri de Catt? Whose big virtue in Fritz' eyes was to NOT recognize him and be impressed? Who, going by that description, sounds very much as if he did recognize him, and played along?

Re: Letters and Journals of Mrs Calderwood

[mildred_of_midgard]

I mean, I forget where I read it, but somewhere early in salon I picked up the impression that Catt had *totally* recognized him and was playing along, and that's been my assumption ever since. That's actually why, a few days ago, I wrote:

[personal profile] cahn, this is the trip where he took Glasow and met Catt, whose great virtue was to be impressed with Fritz without knowing he was king (or while pretending not to recognize him)

Re: Letters and Journals of Mrs Calderwood

[selenak]

Not least because: who else would defend Memoirs de la Maison de Brandenburg?

In Catt's defense: He wasn't a Prussian soldier (let's not forget, in Straßburg Fritz had been recognized by a deserter), this was before Fritzmania, so I don't know whether or not he could have seen the reproduction of a portrait, and even if he did, it would have been likely one of the very generic, stylized ones predating the 7 Years War. So maybe we're wronging Henri de Catt.

Incidentally, what's the data situation - were there any 18th century royals who pulled off an incognito successfully? Because with Wilhelmine and Heinrich - or Joseph on the Habsburg side - travelling under another name was just a way to ensure you didn't have to go through all the ceremonies, but everyone still knew who you were (and better had the correct chairs ready). And you're the one who read the Peter the Great biography - did he manage that carpenter stint in the Netherlands at least for a while, or was it always an open secret?

(Someone still needs to write the AU where FW kidnaps him.)

Re: Letters and Journals of Mrs Calderwood

[mildred_of_midgard]

were there any 18th century royals who pulled off an incognito successfully?

Well, Alexei managed to disappear for quite a while before being exposed. Like, he managed to make it to Vienna safely, and then to be hidden for a while by the Austrians.

And there was Bonnie Prince Charlie (does he count as a royal?).

In both those cases, there are of course people in the know, but the general population (like when BPC apparently went to London) wasn't thronging and pointing.

Also, with the caveat that my source is a single modern bio, it *seems* that Louis XV pulled it off on this occasion. The difference between him and Fritz seems to be that while neither had the foggiest clue how "normal" nobility lived, Louis XV was willing to let his companions be his guide, while Fritz...probably was not. :P

Marie Antoinette's masked balls were generally an open secret, right?

According to one of your write-ups on Sophie of Hanover, future G2 managed to stay incognito for at least a whole hour :P, when meeting Caroline of Ansbach:

My son, the Prince Elector, has urged his son to choose a princess wherever he wanted, but his impulses drove him completely incognito to Ansbach where he talked ot the Princess for an hour unrecognized under the alias of "von Busche", and fell so muich in love in her that he didn't want to look for another.

Part of the problem with Fritz is that he wanted his incognitos to last for days at a time, which is much harder than what Louis and G2 were going for!

Of course, 2-meter-tall Peter had it the hardest. ;)

His namesake Keith: Being crosseyed is also hard, even when you're not a royal!

did he manage that carpenter stint in the Netherlands at least for a while, or was it always an open secret?

According to Massie, it not only wasn't an open secret, it was such a non-secret that the first place he was planning to work in the Netherlands, he was thronged by crowds from day 1 and basically treated like the object of a petting zoo, to the point where he cut his visit short and went to Amsterdam instead.

Massie does include on occasion, in Riga, where he apparently wasn't recognized by one guard, who pointed a gun at him and threatened to shoot him if he didn't stop doing what he was doing, but the local governor knew who Peter was and tried to smooth it over. (Not very successfully; Peter would later cite his treatment in Riga as a reason for starting the Great Northern War!).

In general, the Riga authorities took him at his word about wanting his incognito respected, which turned out to be not what he wanted (namely to have his cake and eat it too):

In Peter's mind, Riga was a city of meanness, inhospitality and insults. As he traveled around Europe, Riga suffered further by contrast. In most of the other cities Peter visited, the reigning sovereign was there to greet him, and even though Peter insisted on his incognito, these electors, kings and even the Austrian Emperor always found a way to meet him privately, to entertain him lavishly and to pay his bills.

(Someone still needs to write the AU where FW kidnaps him.)

Hear, hear! Now, which of us is most prolific? ;)

Re: Letters and Journals of Mrs Calderwood

[cahn]

(oops, left this off) Not least because: who else would defend Memoirs de la Maison de Brandenburg?

AHAHAHA this was the most hilarious part of the whole thing :D

(Someone still needs to write the AU where FW kidnaps him.)

Yes absolutely! (But not me!)

Re: Letters and Journals of Mrs Calderwood

[selenak]

House of Brandenburg: extra point if the teacher who almost certainly was Henri de Catt says something the way the writer trashes his grandfather - who all in all was neither the best nor worst monarch of his age - and talks up his father as if he has anything to prove. *veg* (Only I can't see Catt doing this, going by his own writings.