cahn | 18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 36

Starting a couple of comments earlier than usual to mention there are a couple of new salon fics! These probably both need canon knowledge.

felis ficlets on siblings!

Siblings (541 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 2/2
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Summary:

Three Fills for the 2022 Three Sentence Ficathon.

Chapter One: Protective Action / Babysitting at Rheinsberg (Frederick/Fredersdorf, William+Henry+Ferdinand)
Chapter Two: Here Be Lions (Wilhelmine)

Unsent Letters fic by me:

Letters for a Dead King (1981 words) by raspberryhunter
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen (1726-1802)
Characters: Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Additional Tags: Epistolary, Love/Hate, Talking To Dead People, Canonical Character Death, Dysfunctional Family
Summary:

Just because one's king and brother is dead doesn't mean one has to stop writing to him.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

cahn

ahhhhhh thank you as always for these amazing writeups!

he's told that the daughter he fathered while stationed in Ireland and left with a couple called Smith once he got posts elsewhere had died, while little Mary is told her father is dead my the Smiths. Why the Smiths would do this remains a mystery.

WOW. That is super weird!

When her next kid, Sam, is born, and Merihabel hears young George refer to "the player's brat" as his brother, she and Stratty decide action is called for. And that's when George ends up with them. He and Mary Ann won't see each other again until George is sixteen, though they correspond via letter.

Aaaaaaah. I see why they felt that way, and yet! Aaaaaaaah.

Except, as it turns out, said guy, Mr. Hunn, is a stage fan who wants to be an actor. He sells his business and insists Mary Ann get him engagments like she got Mr. Reddish. Except Mr. Hunn has zero talent and gets booed off stage.

Oh noooooo. Poor Mary Ann :(( She sounds extremely resilient and possibly with a really bad guy picker.

(Around this time, Mary Ann reads Mary Wollstonecraft's "Vindication of the Rights of Women" and goes THIS THIS THIS!!!! in her letters about it.)

I should think so! :(

He is, as he'll later admit, disgusted and shocked by the sight of her and secretly decides two things: a) he'll never, ever live with her, and b) he will dutifully support her and rescue her from this life.

Man, I feel so hard for so many people in this story (except of course for all of Mary Ann's guys) -- I feel like, they don't always maybe have the "right" reaction, but they have super understandable reactions! I do love that one of his reactions is "have to get my mom out of this!"

And while he's doing that, he both intensifies his correspondence with his mother (they end up writing to each other once a week without fail through the years, and he doesn't miss it no matter the political crisis) and keeps her at a distance in terms of actual meetings.

ngl, this gives me a lot of Feelings! Poor George and Mary Ann :(

All in all, a readable book, if inevitably full of real life frustrations.

*nods* Although I think the frustrations make it really fascinating! A lot of people with good intentions often doing things that might be good in some ways but also hurting each other (except, again, for Mary Ann's guys, the jerks).

Her younger children thought it was unfair she favored George and, like her parents, the majority of them were dependent on her far beyond their childhood

I THINK I SEE YOUR PROBLEM, Mary Ann's children! (I suppose George was also the only one who got out, due to Merihabel and Stratty, and who's to say that another of her children might not have done at least marginally better than they actually did, under the same circumstances? But...)

At the same time: she survived. She did not have to prostitute herself. She did not want to be anyone's servant (hence her refusal to become a governess or companion once her first husband had died), and she never did. And for someone who doesn't seem to have had a natural acting gift, but had the discipline to learn and the stamina to continue even after having lived through the frightening experience of an entire theatre boo and hiss at you, she had a respectable bread winning career in the business for fifteen years, not just the two or three a pretty face alone could have gotten her. Would she have traded with Emma Hamilton, who had both an affectionate marriage (Sir William) and a great requited passion (Nelson), not to mention the social climb from zero to envoy's wife, friend of a Queen, but also had the complete fall, loneliness and self destructive death in alcoholic exile? I don't think so.

<33333 I'm quoting this whole thing because I love it. That makes a lot of sense, and I'm glad at least that she got to live on her own terms.

From:

selenak

That is super weird!

Isn't it just? In a way, the reverse of what the Thenardiers are doing to Fantine in Les Miserables - they're fleecing her by constantly pretending Cosette is at death's door and they're having all these expenses, when really they're exploiting her as child labor. Whereas the Smiths forego the financial benefit - because Melchior Guy-Dickens paid for his daughter's upkeep, of course, when he still thought she was alive - so they can keep her.

She sounds extremely resilient and possibly with a really bad guy picker.

Seriously. It's as if she had an unerring instinct for picking Mr. Wrongs. (Which alas played into the narrative George was told as to why she couldn't be trusted with raising him.) She must have felt at some points as if it was her lot in life to clean up after incompetent men. Which was probably yet another reason why George was her favourite - he was super competent! (And even if not providing just what she wanted from him, did help her for a change.)

Although I think the frustrations make it really fascinating! A lot of people with good intentions often doing things that might be good in some ways but also hurting each other (except, again, for Mary Ann's guys, the jerks).

That's true, and it's to the biographer's credit that she doesn't take the easy route of, say, vilifying Stratty and Merihabel but lays out their reasons for acting as they did as well.

I THINK I SEE YOUR PROBLEM, Mary Ann's children! (I suppose George was also the only one who got out, due to Merihabel and Stratty, and who's to say that another of her children might not have done at least marginally better than they actually did, under the same circumstances? But...)

Quite. Youngest son's Frederick's wife Emma blamed Mary Ann's preference as well as George himself for Frederick developing lots of hang-ups never getting quite the career in the navy he thought he could have had, but Frederick (the one who at age 12 had sent George an obscene letter) did get a commission and then managed to piss off a lot of people, and when he expected George to bail him out of this, George refused, which makes it sound like Frederick's fault to me. Otoh, daughter Mary wanted to become an actress, which had the predictable result of:

Mary Ann: NO WAY.
George: NO WAY. Even if I have to pay for her wedding to a respectable citizen.
Mary Ann: You're getting married to a respectable guy instead.
Mary the younger: FINE. But I just know I could have had a great career and will blame Mom and George for not having it.

Meanwhile, Lord Grey, whom the tea is named after, the first time it dawned on him George might actually make PM:

the son of an actress is, ipso facto, disqualified from becoming Prime Minister".

George: Watch me.

That makes a lot of sense, and I'm glad at least that she got to live on her own terms.

That's how I feel. Of course there's much in her life which she would have wanted to have happened differently. But within all the lemons she was dealt, she did manage some lemonade, and she never gave up.

From:

cahn

Which was probably yet another reason why George was her favourite - he was super competent! (And even if not providing just what she wanted from him, did help her for a change.)

I mean -- yeah! I'm not a fan of parents playing favorites, but when one of your kids is super competent and helps you out, and the others are all dependent on you, then, uh, i can hardly blame you.

That's true, and it's to the biographer's credit that she doesn't take the easy route of, say, vilifying Stratty and Merihabel but lays out their reasons for acting as they did as well.

Yay! I'm glad to hear that.

did get a commission and then managed to piss off a lot of people, and when he expected George to bail him out of this, George refused, which makes it sound like Frederick's fault to me.

Ooooof. Yeah. *facepalm*