cahn

Starting a couple of comments earlier than usual to mention there are a couple of new salon fics! These probably both need canon knowledge.

felis ficlets on siblings!

Siblings (541 words) by felisnocturna
Chapters: 2/2
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Characters: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great, Michael Gabriel Fredersdorf, August Wilhelm von Preußen | Augustus William of Prussia (1722-1758), Wilhelmine von Preußen | Wilhelmine of Prussia (1709-1758)
Summary:

Three Fills for the 2022 Three Sentence Ficathon.

Chapter One: Protective Action / Babysitting at Rheinsberg (Frederick/Fredersdorf, William+Henry+Ferdinand)
Chapter Two: Here Be Lions (Wilhelmine)

Unsent Letters fic by me:

Letters for a Dead King (1981 words) by raspberryhunter
Chapters: 1/1
Fandom: 18th Century CE RPF
Rating: General Audiences
Warnings: No Archive Warnings Apply
Relationships: Friedrich II von Preußen | Frederick the Great & Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen (1726-1802)
Characters: Friedrich Heinrich Ludwig von Preußen | Henry of Prussia (1726-1802)
Additional Tags: Epistolary, Love/Hate, Talking To Dead People, Canonical Character Death, Dysfunctional Family
Summary:

Just because one's king and brother is dead doesn't mean one has to stop writing to him.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

selenak

I would say that depends on where they're residing. When we originally discussed this, we agreed that Fritz before marrying MT (and converting) would have to hand over his inheritance rights to AW, but would after FW's death go back on that pledge and claim Prussia as well, especially since conveniently MT's Dad dies the same year, meaning he has no higher ranking male above himself. Now, if he and MT are on Protestant Prussian territory once things go bad enough between them, I'd say she ends up in Stettin under house arrest. However, if they are in Habsburg territory, then he still needs her to (those Austrian nobles and the mighty Prince Bishops probably aren't all fans of his), and he needs her not in some faraway place where Austrian Trenck or types like him stage a daring rescue mission.

Another question: if they are in Habsburg territory when things get bad enough, would MT have him declared insane (which conveniently would demand a regency and his being locked up)?

From:

mildred_of_midgard

However, if they are in Habsburg territory, then he still needs her to (those Austrian nobles and the mighty Prince Bishops probably aren't all fans of his), and he needs her not in some faraway place where Austrian Trenck or types like him stage a daring rescue mission.

Agreed, but I have the impression the same was true of Eleanor (Henry was extremely unpopular in her territory), and she still ended up in house arrest. Granted, she did end up in house arrest on *his* territory, not hers, but he moved around--it was the days of peripatetic monarchy.

Another question: if they are in Habsburg territory when things get bad enough, would MT have him declared insane (which conveniently would demand a regency and his being locked up)?

Oooh. Maybe! She'd certainly want to. The thing that makes me question her success is 1) men have an unfair advantage, 2) Fritz was good at PR. Unlike, say, Peter III, who'd alienated everyone in a way that Fritz didn't. You're the (closest thing we have to a) historian here: are there examples of a woman successfully locking up an intelligent and competent husband who technically outranked her, when he hadn't done anything as obviously self-destructive as Peter III?

Or do you think Fritz would have been in a similar position as Peter: caring about Prussia at the expense of Austria and the HRE, and he would have alienated the local nobles that way? (I.e. not personally, like the various one-off Frexits, but politically, like Peter III.)

From:

selenak

Granted, she did end up in house arrest on *his* territory, not hers, but he moved around--it was the days of peripatetic monarchy.

True, but Eleanor was never under house arrest in Aquitaine, at least to my knowledge. Mostly it was Salisbury in terms of main residence, and if he let her participate at courts, it were courts in Normandy like Chinon, or in Anjou, i.e. all definitely his territory.

In any event, by the 18th century, residences for monarchs were a thing, and travelling monarchs like Joseph very unusual. In rl MT and family mostly moved between Schönbrunn and the Hofburg as main residences, depending on the time of year, with the occasional trips to Innsbruck or to Pressburg for political reasons, whereas they only visited Frankfurt (i.e. HRE but NOT Habsburg territory) for the two coronations, that of FS and that of Joseph. Meanwhile, Fritz did travel, but he shoved of court holding duties partly to EC and otherwise did it during the winter months in Berlin, while Summer invitations to Sanssouci were not given to just anyone, but in either case he did have an established residence there. So in an AU where he and MT get married, he may have made the mistake early on to thinking letting her reside and represent in Vienna while he's doing the governing from Potsdam is a good idea (and also means he can avoid married life), but MT not being like EC in temper or ambition, I can't see her happily doing the representing without any actual power.

Or do you think Fritz would have been in a similar position as Peter: caring about Prussia at the expense of Austria and the HRE, and he would have alienated the local nobles that way? (I.e. not personally, like the various one-off Frexits, but politically, like Peter III.)

I think the chances are 50/50. Fritz had charisma to spare and could win people if he wanted to, plus after decades of fretting about the succession and feeling let down by MT's Dad, I could see a lot of Austrian princes go "at last a young male active ruler, fuck yeah! Glory days are here again!"

On the other hand: Fritz dazzling much of Europe in real life and winning lots of fans (also shocking people he thought he'd be a Hippie, of course) depended on the coup of the first two Silesian Wars. In a scenario where he's married to MT, he doesn't have to do that. So how does he establish himself as A Magnificent Bastard (tm)? I suppose it's possible that France says "Prussia and the HRE and the Habsburg inheritance united? DO NOT WANT" and supports Karl Albrecht of Wittelsbach for Emperor regardless when MT's Dad dies, and then Fritz can start his reigning life in 1740 by invading France pre-emptively instead. This would certainly win him a lot of fans in the Austrian nobility, given two centuries of French/Austrian feuding.

BUT: renember how FS was put through the humilation conga when first marrying MT? Now, in a scenario where Fritz has (supposedly) given up his succession right in favour of AW and converted, he's a territory-less prince as well, and a former Protestant from a court that's regarded as backwards and barbaric due to FW. So I can see the Austrian nobility being similarly snobbish, only Fritz isn't FS and would be extremely sarcastic and offensive in return (none of these guys are Dad! He married so he won't get bossed around anymore!), and making lots of enemies before ever getting the chance to impress them with his military land grabbing talent. And don't forget, the Catholic Prince bishops are a big power factor in Habsburg territories. They would have been suspicious of Fritz from the start. He'd have been in a worse position than Joseph with the Church.

From:

cahn

I don't really have anything profound (or shallow) to say about any of this, except that okay, I seriously want all these MT AUs now! :D Well, tbh, I would rather read AU about Fritz being locked up, to tell the truth. (Mostly because I feel like Fritz has more advantages while being locked up, being male.)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Fritz dazzling much of Europe in real life and winning lots of fans (also shocking people he thought he'd be a Hippie, of course) depended on the coup of the first two Silesian Wars. In a scenario where he's married to MT, he doesn't have to do that. So how does he establish himself as A Magnificent Bastard (tm)?

Let me home in on this detail and remind everyone that the HRE was at war with the Turks from 1737-1739, and Austria lost Belgrade in 1739. FS took some heat from Austrian nobles for not making a good showing in this war.

Two possibilities:
a. Fritz, not being FS, makes a name for himself in 1739, before he even comes to power.

b. Fritz, being stuck with the Austrian army and treasury in their 1730s state, also loses Belgrade.

I suspect the second one is more likely. (Much of Fritz's historical success was due to making good use of the tools he had.) So does he go all TERRIER once he comes to power and can reform the army? He might!

This means we've got at *least* three possible ways for the 1740s Fritz fandom to develop in this AU:

1. The War of the Austrian Succession, as you note
2. Campaign Take Back Belgrade
3. Campaign "What do you mean I renounced Prussia, renouncing inheritances isn't a thing, especially when it's done under duress, see also Philip 'the Frog' V"

The third one could go either way, it might be the one that gets him the Peter III treatment. :P But assuming Fritz manages to go for 1 first, because Europe doesn't give him a choice, and 2 second, because he's a terrier and he's already emotionally invested, he might get some Austrian noble fans. Then maybe, having taken several years to fight most of Europe and then the Turks, he tries claiming his Prussian inheritance in 1758 (assuming AW would have died anyway), and then Regent Heinrich vs. Fritz and also MT vs. Fritz is ON?

...Okay, I want this now. :P