cahn

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In the previous post Charles II found AITA:

Look, I, m, believe in live and let live. (And in not going on my travels again. Had enough of that to last a life time.) Why can't everyone else around me be more chill? Instead, my wife refuses to employ my girlfriend, my girlfriend won't budge and accept another office, my brother is set on a course to piss off everyone (he WILL go on his travels again), and my oldest kid shows signs of wanting my job which is just not on, sorry to say. And don't get me started about Mom (thank God she's living abroad). What am I doing wrong? AITA?

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From:

selenak

Also a useful reminder, this wasn't the first time Henri had changed his religion, though the first few times hadn't been his idea: born Cathoic, became Protestant as a child when his mother Jeanne D'Albret did (you know her from Sarah Gristwood,

cahn), became Catholic after the St. Bartholomew Massacre, promptly declared himself to be Protestant again once he was no longer in polite Valois custody. This also contributed to universal scepticism as to the sincerity of his last conversion.

When young Armand du Plessis (future Richelieu the Cardinal) went to Rome to get an dispensation for becoming a bishop while still way below the newly raised by the Council of Trent age, he was questioned by the Pope as to the sincerity of his monarch's Catholicism, which was a challenge and one of those in theory no good answer situations - remember, he's supposed to get the Pope to make him bishop (which is family's entire income depends on right then), so he can't afford to piss off the Pope, but if he agrees that Henri is a heretic in disguise, he's a disloyal subject and also can kiss any chance of a French career goodbye. However, apparantly young Armand was up to the task, and the Pope commented approvingly "Henricus Magnus Armandus Armando" and licensed him becoming a bishop.

(The irony is that he hadn't even wanted to be, at first. Young Armand was never meant for the church. He was a third son. His oldest brother, Henri, was the one who got the (modest - the du Plessis were a deeply provincial nobility on Dad's side, and Mom wasn't even that, she was from Beamtenadel) title, and brother No.2, Alphonse, was the one meant for the church. Alphonse actually loved his faith too much, i.e. he was all for becoming a priest, but he absolutely refused to make a career in it, he became a monk. This was a big problem for the family, because Dad was dead (another duel - did I mention Richelieu really had good reason to loathe duels?), and the family income partly came from the bishopry of Lucon, which they had a lockhold on, but when Uncle previous bishop died and Alphonse absolutely refused to become more than a monk, Mom, Suzanne, who was one tough lady, drafted teenage Armand out of his Parisian cadet school (where he was supposed to make a military career) and into the church, where he had to study theology in record time, and then go to Rome to convince the Pope that despite the recent reforms of the Council of Trent, which were designed to prevent among so many other things young men without any experience becoming bishops in name only, reaping the cash but not doing the work, he should be granted the office. Young Armand did just that by managing to defend Henri IV without insulting the Pope. Presto, Armand du Plessis, Bishop of Lucon at 21.

However, young Armand wasn't done. He also was one of life's workoholics. He did take the office seriously and put the fear of God into the sleepy Lucon administration which wasn't used to a Plessis actually showing up for work instead of appointing a local to do it, completely reorganized it, guilt tripped and scared the local nobility into contributing, too - this was an uphill battle, because Lucon, which happens to be not THAT far from La Rochelle, was surrounded by more Protestants than Catholics at this point, and the Catholic nobles weren't invested in doing something for Lucon since the Plessis family - not locals - had had that lockhold on the bishop seat -, all of which meant that at age 30, when Henri IV got murdered and a general assembly for France was called for the last time before the French Revolution, Armand du Plessis, Bishop of Lucon, was the guy voted for as one of the representatives. He went to Paris, spoke in front of the General Assembly and the new Regent Maria de' Medici, and the rest is history.

Decades later, when he was Cardinal Richelieu and thus the most powerful church official in France, with the corresponding clout in Rome, he forced brother Alphonse to leave his monastery, and had him appointed a cardinal by the Pope, too. Alphonse still absolutely did not want to, and Richelieu had to lean hard on his abbot to make that happen, but he did, and Alphonse had a nervous breakdown. To be fair, that was another family problem. An uncle, Alphonse and Armand's younger sister Nicole would all end up deemed insane. When Nicole had her final breakdown, and her husband just wanted to leave her in that state, Richelieu put the fear of God into him, too, and gave strict (and in terms of Nicole, very tender) instructions of how she could be cared for, which were very atypical for a time not known to deal well with people suffering from mental illness. But if he was a good brother to Nicole, he definitely triggered Alphone's breakdown by forcing him out of the monastery and into a Cardinal title, and if there is another explanation for this than "payback for destroying teenage Armand's dreams by refusing an ecclesiastical career", I haven't come across it yet.

From:

cahn

he can't afford to piss off the Pope, but if he agrees that Henri is a heretic in disguise, he's a disloyal subject and also can kiss any chance of a French career goodbye. However, apparantly young Armand was up to the task

Man, this seems... super in character.

Suzanne, who was one tough lady, drafted teenage Armand out of his Parisian cadet school (where he was supposed to make a military career) and into the church, where he had to study theology in record time, and then go to Rome to convince the Pope that despite the recent reforms of the Council of Trent, which were designed to prevent among so many other things young men without any experience becoming bishops in name only, reaping the cash but not doing the work, he should be granted the office.

Wooooow. That's awesome.

he forced brother Alphonse to leave his monastery,

Me: Omg, I am absolutely going to ask whether this was Richelieu's revenge on his brother --

and if there is another explanation for this than "payback for destroying teenage Armand's dreams by refusing an ecclesiastical career", I haven't come across it yet.

Me: Orrrrr I guess I don't have to! :)

Richelieu put the fear of God into him, too, and gave strict (and in terms of Nicole, very tender) instructions of how she could be cared for, which were very atypical for a time not known to deal well with people suffering from mental illness.

Now this is great. (And as usual I really like hearing about people who could be really nice and also really ruthless.)