18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 34

[cahn]

And including Emperor Joseph II!

from Derek Beales: Joseph II, Volume 2: Against the World, 1780 - 1790:

Joseph's alleged comment to Mozart about the Entführung, "Too many notes", has been taken as evidence of his ignorance. But he probably said something like, "Too beautiful for our ears, and monstrous many notes." It is always necessary to bear in mind, when appraising the emperor's remarks, his peculiar brand of humor or sarcasm. He was usually getting at someone. And he did not use the royal "we". The ears in question were those of the Viennese audience, whom he was mocking for their limited appreciation of Mozart's elaborate music.

(though not gonna lie, I think it is a LOT of notes)

Comments

How much in danger was Pesne for that painting?

[selenak]

Mildred asked, re, Pesne the painter (who risked painting rising sons suns in 1739>:

could FW have done anything worse than kick him out? Like lock him up or anything?

On the one hand: Pesne is a civilian, not a member of the army or a civil servant. While he does have an office - court painter - from which FW can dismiss him, painting a sunrise while some dark clouds fade away does not qualify as a crime. I'm also not sure whether Pesne was a Prussian citizen or retained his French citizenship. So I'm tempted to say "no".

On the other hand: being a civilian did Gundling a fat lot of good, and his attempt to leave Prussia was still called "desertion" by FW. So while I don't think FW - if he'd survived - would have locked up Pesne, he might have, if he didn't fire him and bid him leave the country on the spot, resorted to bullying tactics, of which he had many. Though: Pesne had the international acclaim and guaranteed livelihood Gundling lacked. I'd say the first time FW sets his wig on fire or puts a bear anywhere near him, Pesne leaves for France or Saxony or, hey, Vienna or Hannover.

Re: How much in danger was Pesne for that painting?

[cahn]

So -- is it that the difference between Gundling and Pesne is that Gundling didn't have anyone to stick up for him, so if he tried running away to France no one would care if he was brought back to Prussia, whereas if Pesne left for France Louis would be like "yeah, we're keeping him"?

Re: How much in danger was Pesne for that painting?

[selenak]

Pretty much. Plus: after the first few years, the mixture of titles and humiliations FW showered down on Gundling pretty much destroyed his reputation as a scholar, meaning he would not have gotten a job anywhere else (whereas in Prussia, life was hell, but well paid hell), whereas Pesne's reputation as a painter was completely intact. All of which FW knew, which is why I doubt Pesne was in danger of more than getting yelled at and possibly fired if someone had told FW about that Rheinsberg ceiling.

Re: How much in danger was Pesne for that painting?

[mildred_of_midgard]

You could be right, though I'm still wondering whether this would count as lèse-majesté: an insult to the dignity of the monarch. After all, civilian Wolff got threatened with hanging if he didn't leave the country within 48 hours, for writing books that FW didn't even bother to read but only went by hearsay in condemning.

What Wolff and Pesne had in common was they both did things that hit on FW hot buttons: predestination and favoring Fritz, respectively. The big difference between them is that the latter was a foreigner, but I could imagine them both getting the same treatment: "Get out now or face the consequences." (Lèse-majesté carried the death penalty in the 1794 law code, so I can only imagine it did in 1739 as well.)

I wouldn't be surprised if Pesne was banking on getting the exile option that Wolff got and not being subjected to summary execution, since he was a big name (unlike Gundling). And was willing to accept exile, since, as you say, he had other job options.