cahn | 18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 33

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cahn

And, I mean, it doesn't have to be just 18th century characters, either!

(also, waiting for Yuletide!)

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From:

selenak

The editor does at least acknowledge that Charles VI managed to alienate FW with his own choices (which I suspect was far more responsible for his change of heart than La Chétardie

*nods*

More advice he got: Say nice things to Fritz, but not too nice, because being nice to Fritz is an FW landmine that we do not want to step on.

Especially in 1739. Reminder to

cahn: this is when FW falls back into bad habits and is so massively hostile towards Fritz that there are rumors about him wanting to change the order of succession reaching Bayreuth, which is why Wilhelmine writes to Fritz asking about this and Fritz writes back not to worry, he has AW solidly on his side. Another 1739 event is that FW brings Fritz to the Tobbaco Parliament, the Tobacco guys all rise for the next King, which is very much against FW's instructions as FW prided himself on being only adressed as "Colonel" in the Tabacgie and that they're all equals etc. while there, so he sends everyone a death glare and does not hold another Tabacco Parliament again.

Also possibly in 1739: that statement of FW's to Fritz that Valory quotes in his early 1750s pen portrait of Fritz. Reminder:

He's harsh and masterful towards his brothers. He holds them in an utter dependency which he himself never got used to when having it on his father who made everyone tremble. This father knew him very well and once told him: "When you are lord and master here, you will betray everyone, for you can't help yourself. You are false to the core of your being, and a betrayer. Be careful, Friedrich! Make that first betrayal as complete as possible, for you won't manage to fool them a second time."

Now in theory, FW could have said this at any point - he certainly never changed his opinion on Fritz being a liar from Fritz' later teenage years onwards - but between Valory arriving in 1739, and Valory in his 1750s description saying AW is one of his sources for the quote, putting that particular outburst in 1739 in a reasonable guess.

(Not that kid AW can't have witnessed FW ranting about Fritz at earlier times, but not while speaking to Fritz, with a certainty that Fritz will succeed him.)

And while FW's health is visibly declining, this has been true before, and he's recovered from confidently predicted impending death. So anyone banking on FW's near demise by openly courting Fritz could make a massive miscalculation.

Valory was tall, with an above average plumpness

Fritz certainly has a go at that in the Palladion, though he admits it didn't stop Valory from travelling with the army on campaign.

1739: Not an easy year for diplomats to Prussia, in conclusion.

No kidding.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Especially in 1739.

Exactly why my closing remark was about 1739 not being an easy year!

(Pesne seems to have been not too worried up in Rheinsberg, though, painting that ceiling about the rising sun (I keep typing "rising son", lol).)

does not hold another Tabacco Parliament again.

I remembered the anecdote but had forgotten this detail. Man, no wonder the French are all "DON'T STEP ON THAT LANDMINE" in their diplomatic instructions!

(Not that kid AW can't have witnessed FW ranting about Fritz at earlier times, but not while speaking to Fritz, with a certainty that Fritz will succeed him.)

Not even earlier in the 1730s, when Fritz was visiting for the holidays every year? Though I agree, 1739, is the most *likely* year.

So anyone banking on FW's near demise by openly courting Fritz could make a massive miscalculation.

Yup, this.