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1730 Decision-making Characters
Date: 2022-01-01 05:29 pm (UTC)They're French, because Fritz shows up in France, and if possible, I'd like to keep him from going to England. G2 and his ministers will make decisions that matter too, but we don't need to get inside their heads as much; we can see them from the French perspective.
Since this isn't primarily a story of French politics, though, I've limited myself to the bare minimum of the people that probably have to be mentioned by name while a decision is reached on what to do with Fritz.
(I mean, I say this now. You never know what my future self will decide to do. :P I have a dissertation on factionalism at the French court I haven't finished reading and a book on the way with a prosopographical study of the French court, which may tempt me to follow my curiosity about other people, like the Duc de Belle-Isle.)
1730 Decision-making Characters: Cardinal Fleury
Date: 2022-01-01 05:37 pm (UTC)Personally
Fleury: I'm the most powerful man in France in 1730. A little recap: once Louis XIV died and his five-year-old great-grandson inherited, the man in power was Regent Philippe d'Orleans. Then he died, and the Duc de Bourbon took over. But he made himself unpopular, and then I took over.
People thought I was going to be a mild-mannered ecclesiastic and awesome figurehead. Hahahahaaaa. I'm not a pushover, I just play one on TV. I try very hard not to alienate people, especially since I don't have a powerful family to fall back on if I lose royal favor or make too many enemies. It's a great strategy for staying in power while making unpopular decisions. And whenever that doesn't work, I fall back on this one trick I keep up my sleeve.
See, I was the King's tutor. And he lost all his family by the time he was five. So he was a lonely kid, and now is a young man, and I'm a kindly grandfather figure to him. So any time i looks like someone might be about to successfully overthrow me, I just nonconfrontationally and casually decide to go out to the countryside to get some rest from my overwork. Within twenty-four hours, the King has panicked and ordered me to come back because he needs me. I'm practically all the family he's got. And that makes it clear to everyone that they can't safely mess with me.
Also, Louis' not interested in politics. He shows up at council meetings and agrees to what I tell him. I actually did try to get him to take more of an interest in ruling! He's twenty now, in 1730. But he'd rather be hunting and checking out the ladies, and he's pretty shy and insecure. So I guess if he's not going to run the country, I don't mind doing it.
I was seventy-two when I became chief minister, and everyone's been planning for my death, but I'll show them! I'll live to be ninety, that's what I'll do!
So for some seventeen years there's a fight to succeed me, once it clicks that ruling through me isn't going to work. I will eliminate my opponents as I go, until almost the end of my life, and in the end, no one will win the fight to succeed me. Or, as one historian puts it, the true winner will be factionalism.
Politically
Fleury: Peace! Peace is important. Peace will allow France to recover economically. If I can drag out the start of a war by insisting to Britain that we need to pro-actively negotiate a treaty that accounts for everything that might possibly happen in Europe as a result of this war, I will! In ten years, I will try to avoid getting into the War of the Austrian Succession, but "most powerful man" doesn't mean "has everything his way."
I was okay with the Anglo-French alliance, but I'm not the Regent Philippe. He had really strong dynastic reasons for avoiding a Spanish alliance and seeking an English one. I don't. The longer the English alliance goes on, the more inclined I am to make peace with Austria and/or Spain and to ditch the English. I'd prefer Austria, personally, buuuuut...you can predict how that's going to go over in France. So Spain it is.
You know the funny thing, though? I've got the British envoy, Horatio Walpole, brother of their unofficial prime minister Robert Walpole, wrapped around my little finger. I'm pretty much his only source for information at court here. He lets me dictate his reports back to Britain. And he's totally convinced I'm 100% loyal to the British alliance.
Even when I appoint a foreign minister notoriously hostile to Britain and Austria and friendly to Spain in 1727, right when Britain is starting a war with Spain, he defends me to his superiors back home! All he'll say is that I'm obviously not as all-powerful as thought, if this other guy managed to shoehorn his way into the position over my objections.
Hahaha, this is great. I wish all envoys were this trusting.
Wait. What do you means it's June 1730, and Walpole's been recalled and Waldegrave's the new envoy? Well, hopefully I can fool the new guy too.
Fleury: *fools the new guy too*
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Cardinal Fleury
Date: 2022-01-03 06:12 am (UTC)...wow, this guy is pretty cool :P
Hahaha, this is great. I wish all envoys were this trusting.
lol, wow!
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Cardinal Fleury
Date: 2022-01-03 11:53 pm (UTC)...wow, this guy is pretty cool :P
Reminder of how quickly little Louis XV lost all his family (thus psychologically affecting him, no doubt):
1711: Grandpa dies of measles. Grandma is long gone.
1712: Mom, Dad, and older brother die of smallpox within a month of each other.
1714: Uncle dies from a hunting accident.
1715: Great-grandpa Louis XIV dies of gangrene.
Everyone closely related is either dead or foreign royalty at this point, leaving Madame de Ventadour as the main surrogate mother figure and Fleury as the surrogate (grand)father figure.
Incidentally, dying-of-measles Mom is the daughter of Victor Amadeus in one of the Franco-Savoyard marriages arranged in the hopes of cementing one of VA's side-switchings. The other such marriage being Marie-Louise and Philip V.
1730 Decision-making Characters: Chauvelin
Date: 2022-01-01 05:43 pm (UTC)Personally
Chauvelin: I'm Fleury's second-in-command in 1730. Everyone, even my enemies (and unlike Fleury, I have a lot), agrees I'm intelligent and hard-working. My specialty is public law. In 1727, I got the job of foreign minister, along with a lot of other important positions, at the relatively young age of 42, without any diplomatic or administrative experience, because Fleury wanted someone to work closely with.
I play bad cop to his good cop. It works especially well with British ambassadors! Any time Fleury does anything they don't like, he blames me. Since I'm personally abrasive and outspoken about my political opinions, and he's very soft-spoken and plays his cards close to his chest, they believe him!
This will lead not just British ambassadors but also future historians to believe that I had way more power and influence than I probably did. But eventually, historians will come to the conclusion that Fleury made the policy while I implemented it, and that we just did a really, really good good-cop bad-cop act that fooled everyone for centuries. Hey, Fleury called me his "autre moi-même"!
Politically
Chauvelin: Go Spain! Down with Austria! If I had my way, we'd grind Austria into the dust with the heel of our boot. I even wrote a memorandum on how to do it.
One, barrier states around Austria. Sweden and Poland in the north and east, Turkey in the south-east, and in Germany, subsidize the Electors of Bavaria and Saxony and the Elector Palatine. Two, drive the Austrians out of the Italian peninsula and set up a confederation of client states there. Isabella Farnese will love it! Victor Amadeus of Savoy (and later his son) will too!
Did I mention Spain? We need a Bourbon alliance against the Habsburgs. Why are we allied with England?
Fleury: Because we still need them. I can't let them go until I've got a better option.
Chauvelin: If I piss off their ministers enough, can we get out of his alliance and go for my pet project in Spain?
Fleury: Possibly! But let's wait until they sign the Pragmatic Sanction, and accuse them of agreeing to a secret article to force the Pragmatic Sanction on us! Then the bizarre Anglo-French alliance will end in 1731. But ever since I appointed you, outspoken anti-Austria, pro-Spain guy, my second-in-command, the writing has been on the wall. (Except to the British ambassadors who thought I had no say in your appointment. I'm still snickering behind my hand over that one.)
Chauvelin: Okay!
Chauvelin: Meanwhile, though. Even as second-in-command and appointed successor, my ambitions are outstripping my position. I really just want Fleury's job. I will conduct secret correspondence with a number of the ambassadors who report to me in other countries. One of which is a certain Count Rottembourg.
Unfortunately, Fleury catches on to all this conspiring, and I get dismissed and exiled in disgrace in 1737. I make a bid for his job in 1743 after Fleury dies, but it fails. I die a private citizen and an object lesson in hubris.
To this day (2022), my papers have never been found, despite Fleury ordering a search for them after my fall. This makes it hard to tell what I was thinking, which gives the writer of fiction a lot of leeway.
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Chauvelin
Date: 2022-01-02 09:34 am (UTC)Possibly useful reminder: this is just when former Saxon envoy to France, Hoym, grabs power in Saxony in the void left after Fleming's death and becomes the dominant voice, which means Manteuffel, who actually has the State Department and is anti France and pro Austria, becomes marginalized. However, Le Diable is no one's fool and in 1730 after having all his papers brought to his estate Sorgen, Frey retires, becoming a PRIVATE citizen who moves to Berlin this same year, corresponding with young up and coming Brühl, and will very much enjoy the downfall of Hoym from afar. Hoym, who immediately after taking over the foreign office as well has it searched for dirt on Manteuffel, is most annoyed there are no papers to be found, zilch, nada.
This is vaguely connected to Suhm in that one of the last things Manteuffel did before realizing he lost his power struggle with Hoym and better prepare his exit was rooting for a GB/Prussia clash in the summer of 1729, being ticked off when Suhm offered to reconcile the two instead, and travelling to Berlin to make things clear only to fall sick en route in September, and once he's recovered, the crisis is over for good. Otoh, Stratemann when noting Suhm has been recalled also notes rumors about him being in disgrace. Basically, near the end of 1729 and in the first half of 1730 both Manteuffel and Suhm face the fact they're currently without a career in Saxony and move to Berlin. Also, in 1730 at Zeithain according to the interrogation protocols, Fritz tried to get Hoym's support (and repeatedly urged Katte to talk to Hoym on his behalf), but didn't succeed.
Now, I think it's a pretty save bet that Hoym was, figuratively speaking, in bed with Chauvelin and funded by him. Which could mean that his firm "no" to the idea of supporting an escaping Prussian Crown Prince reflects Chauvelin's attitude, which could be your obstacle to overcome in the story.
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Chauvelin
Date: 2022-01-02 04:22 pm (UTC)Dulcineawayward prince that he's worried about.Which could mean that his firm "no" to the idea of supporting an escaping Prussian Crown Prince reflects Chauvelin's attitude, which could be your obstacle to overcome in the story.
Could be! Lavisse says that if you read the archives closely, the oft-quoted "We'd love to see you in Paris" note from the French gov't to Fritz from 1729 or 1730 (I forget) meant "IF your dad gives you permission to travel," not the asylum offer it's usually taken as. So I've been assuming that Fleury and Chauvelin are not immediately happy to see him in France (and Rottembourg may even lie about Fritz being at his estate while he tries to figure out what to do).
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Chauvelin
Date: 2022-01-03 06:15 am (UTC)(also, this part is sort of unintentionally hilarious to me because the only Chauvelin I know about is the one from Scarlet Pimpernel)
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Chauvelin
Date: 2022-01-03 11:55 pm (UTC)This was my reaction word for word! I was so onboard with their partnership, and so disappointed they had a falling out. And yes to Charles XII and Görtz, problematic faves!
I do not know The Scarlet Pimpernel and am not familiar with that Chauvelin.
1730 Decision-making Characters: Rottembourg
Date: 2022-01-01 05:48 pm (UTC)Rottembourg's not an especially influential figure in France, but since Fritz shows up at his house and stays there, he gets to be influential on this particular topic in this story.
Personally
Rottembourg: My family's from Brandenburg, hence the German-sounding name. Prussian Count Rothenburg, who attended the Sanssouci round table, gave Biche to Fritz, and died in Fritz's arms, was my nephew or my cousin, depending on who you ask. My dad moved to France and was made a count. Now I'm French but with some Brandenburg possessions.
I was appointed ambassador to Prussia 3 times, but never managed to convince FW of anything. He changes his mind every five minutes! Good god. He drives all us ambassadors crazy. What is Seckendorff's secret???
I even tried organizing a local coup in the mid-1720s to have him declared insane and replaced with a crown prince I and my superiors naively believe will be grateful to France. I spent my time pretending not to notice or care about Fritz, and he did the same, while he passed information to me through an intermediary. The intermediary was the pro-English foreign minister known for his close ties to SD and her party, Friedrich Ernst von Knyphausen, better known on AO3 as father of future Ariane von Keith. (He will die 10 years before she marries Peter.)
But that failed too. But I made friends with one Hans Hermann von Katte. Wilhelmine says I mentored him and that his excellent French and polished manners, so rare in Berlin, were due to my influence. He visited me when he went traveling in 1728. Kloosterhuis says he came to Madrid. Mildred strongly suspects we met in France.
When Fritz was trying to escape in 1730, Katte suggested my estate in Alsace, not far over the border, as a safe house. Historically, Fritz admitted in his interrogation that he was making for my estate when he was stopped, on that fateful night of August 5. But in this AU, he makes it!
In real life, I was sent to Spain as ambassador in the second half of 1730, but in this AU, I was about to set off when I got word that a Prussian crown prince has shown up in Alsace. Naturally, I stay to deal with that far more interesting situation! Whether I've told Fleury and/or Chauvelin that this is what I'm doing, or whether I pretend that I've fallen ill while I protect Fritz's incognito, the author has yet to decide.
In real life, I ended up successfully negotiating the Bourbon Family Compact of 1733, between France and Spain, after the 1731 collapse of the Anglo-French alliance, and then was recalled at my own request for health reasons in 1734 and died in Paris in 1735, childless, "very rich," and either married or never married, depending on which obituary you ask, but for this AU, definitely unmarried.
Politically
Rottembourg: In 1727, the British thought I was a supporter of the Anglo-French alliance, but as we've seen, they weren't always good at reading the situation. I was on friendly terms with Whitworth (d. 1725), but Whitworth also liked me despite being very opposed to the Anglo-French alliance, so that says nothing about how I felt about the alliance.
In August 1727, Chauvelin was appointed foreign minister. In October 1727, I was sent to Spain. My job was to negotiate between Britain and Spain, which were at war (a minor war) over things like Gibraltar. Historians disagree on whether I exceeded my instructions in agreeing to terms that favored Spain over Britain, or whether I was following secret instructions from Fleury and Chauvelin.
Regardless, the British got super upset, took it out on Fleury, and he gave me a slap on the wrist and disowned the treaty I had signed, forcing negotiations to start over. But after the treaty was finally agreed on in Paris, Chauvelin insisted it be sent to Madrid so I could sign it too, to undo any appearance that I was in disgrace. This caused a little bureaucratic hassle for the Brits, but Chauvelin stood his ground and Fleury backed him.
Whether my support for Chauvelin's scheming for Fleury's job was cause or effect of the fact that he had my back like this, is unknown. At least one historian says there's enough evidence to conclude that I agreed with his stances, but, Mildred wishes to point out that all historians agree that in France, courtiers and ministers schemed not entirely on what they actually believed was best for France, but what would get them and/or their family to advance the furthest in society. There was a huge patronage/clientele network at Versailles that governed decisions and policies at least as much as political opinions.
So did I care about the debasement of Austria, or did I just think Chauvelin was a good patron to have, and he cared about the abasement of Austria? This is an open question for fiction authors.
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Rottembourg
Date: 2022-01-02 09:43 am (UTC)Seckendorff: Good at faking pipe-smoking, disguising non-theological literature as the bible, a successfull military career which always impresses FW, a solid record of actually being religious to the point where I imprison my court fool for his sex life, and also, far more convincing than you at liking FW more than Junior. FW is touchy in that regard. Furthermore, while I did my best to win over Junior in secret anyway and spend a good deal of the Emperor's money on him, I did have a far more realistic estimation of his character and capacity for gratitude than you did as proven by my letter to Eugene on that subject.
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Rottembourg
Date: 2022-01-02 04:15 pm (UTC)Remind me?
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Rottembourg
Date: 2022-01-02 06:49 pm (UTC)Eugene: Thumbs up! I like it. That G2 is getting way to big for his breeches and is Prince Elector of Hanover. Seckendorff, tell FW if there's war, I'm totally joining in.
FW/G2 reconciliation happens.
Eugene: Go figure. That man is so unreliable. Any news on the "make the kid like us" front, Seckendorff?
Seckendorff: Well, he's taking money from me, but if you want my opinion, that kid is evil (böse) and false (falsch) to the core, and if you're hoping for gratitude once FW kicks the bucket, forget it.
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Rottembourg
Date: 2022-01-03 06:16 am (UTC)Wait, what? Remind me? Lol Seckendorff :P :)
Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Rottembourg
Date: 2022-01-03 04:20 pm (UTC)Blanning: Even Count Seckendorf had to smuggle in books to Wusterhausen, lest he be suspected of wasting on reading time that might have been better employed in hunting, drinking or praying.
ETA: Disguising contraband books as the Bible was Selena's speculation as to how the smuggling worked; he could also have been hiding them in false trunk bottoms, for example. (But I love the idea of fake covers.) I also don't have a primary source for this; Blanning cites a 1941 bio of FW by a Nazi sympathizer, which so far I have neither acquired nor asked Selena to inflict on herself.