18th-Century Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 33

[cahn]

And, I mean, it doesn't have to be just 18th century characters, either!

(also, waiting for Yuletide!)

Comments

Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Chauvelin

[selenak]

subsidize the Electors of Bavaria and Saxony and the Elector Palatine

Possibly useful reminder: this is just when former Saxon envoy to France, Hoym, grabs power in Saxony in the void left after Fleming's death and becomes the dominant voice, which means Manteuffel, who actually has the State Department and is anti France and pro Austria, becomes marginalized. However, Le Diable is no one's fool and in 1730 after having all his papers brought to his estate Sorgen, Frey retires, becoming a PRIVATE citizen who moves to Berlin this same year, corresponding with young up and coming Brühl, and will very much enjoy the downfall of Hoym from afar. Hoym, who immediately after taking over the foreign office as well has it searched for dirt on Manteuffel, is most annoyed there are no papers to be found, zilch, nada.

This is vaguely connected to Suhm in that one of the last things Manteuffel did before realizing he lost his power struggle with Hoym and better prepare his exit was rooting for a GB/Prussia clash in the summer of 1729, being ticked off when Suhm offered to reconcile the two instead, and travelling to Berlin to make things clear only to fall sick en route in September, and once he's recovered, the crisis is over for good. Otoh, Stratemann when noting Suhm has been recalled also notes rumors about him being in disgrace. Basically, near the end of 1729 and in the first half of 1730 both Manteuffel and Suhm face the fact they're currently without a career in Saxony and move to Berlin. Also, in 1730 at Zeithain according to the interrogation protocols, Fritz tried to get Hoym's support (and repeatedly urged Katte to talk to Hoym on his behalf), but didn't succeed.

Now, I think it's a pretty save bet that Hoym was, figuratively speaking, in bed with Chauvelin and funded by him. Which could mean that his firm "no" to the idea of supporting an escaping Prussian Crown Prince reflects Chauvelin's attitude, which could be your obstacle to overcome in the story.

Re: 1730 Decision-making Characters: Chauvelin

[mildred_of_midgard]

Thank you for linking in Saxony! There was annoyingly little about Saxony in my sources, and I was going to have to go over the stuff you've told us before. Because Saxony is definitely not irrelevant in this AU, what with Fritz escaping from Zeithain and PRIVATE citizen Suhm showing up in France looking for his Dulcinea wayward prince that he's worried about.

Which could mean that his firm "no" to the idea of supporting an escaping Prussian Crown Prince reflects Chauvelin's attitude, which could be your obstacle to overcome in the story.

Could be! Lavisse says that if you read the archives closely, the oft-quoted "We'd love to see you in Paris" note from the French gov't to Fritz from 1729 or 1730 (I forget) meant "IF your dad gives you permission to travel," not the asylum offer it's usually taken as. So I've been assuming that Fleury and Chauvelin are not immediately happy to see him in France (and Rottembourg may even lie about Fritz being at his estate while he tries to figure out what to do).