cahn | Frederick the Great and Other 18th-C Characters, Discussion Post 31

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cahn

And in this post:

-

luzula is going to tell us about the Jacobites and the '45!

-I'm going to finish reading Nancy Goldstone's book about Maria Theresia and (some of) her children Maria Christina, Maria Carolina, and Marie Antoinette, In the Shadow of the Empress, and

selenak is going to tell us all the things wrong with the last four chapters (spoiler: in the first twenty chapters there have been many, MANY things wrong)!

-

mildred_of_midgard is going to tell us about Charles XII of Sweden and the Great Northern War

(seriously, how did I get so lucky to have all these people Telling Me Things, this is AWESOME)

-oh, and also there will be Yuletide signups :D

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

luzula

But Horowski and other, more recent authors I've read since then have espoused the opinion that pushing on would likely have worked in the same way that 1688 worked for William.

What books/articles have you read on the topic? *curious* But yeah, I've seen authors arguing for this, as well. Even if G2 didn't intend to flee, the forces around London itself don't seem to have been large enough to withstand them (also it included the Black Watch which might well have changed sides), and then the question is whether Cumberland, coming several days behind, could have taken it back or not.

I haven't read enough primary sources to have a well-informed opinion, but I can tell you that pushing on from Derby was the turning point in my long-ago fic for a reason. ;)

Ha, yes, this happened in my AU as well, though the Jacobite force was a bit larger because of events previous in the story. As for primary sources, in general I've managed to get hold of some in digitized versions, but so much of what authors refer to is inaccessible material from archives. So I don't feel like I'd be able to inform myself enough that way.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

What books/articles have you read on the topic? *curious*

Well, none intentionally, due to my desire to avoid getting sucked back in. ;) I only ran into mentions of this while reading up on other topics, which is why I'm not going to remember which ones they were, unfortunately. I'm *reasonable* sure one was Horowski's Europa der Könige (highly recommended if your German's up to it), but as for the other mentions, I don't remember.

so much of what authors refer to is inaccessible material from archives. So I don't feel like I'd be able to inform myself enough that way.

Ah, too bad. We're definitely impeded in the Fritz fandom by lack of archive access and lack of necessary skills to make good use of archives, but so much has been digitized or at least published that we're doing fairly well on the primary source front. Orders of magnitude better than I was as a high school student circa 2000!

From:

luzula

Heh, my German is non-existent. BTW, if you need any help with Swedish while reading up on Charles XII, let me know. Though despite being Swedish, I don't know much about him--my main association is that unfortunately he has been adopted as a mascot by Nazis over here.

Orders of magnitude better than I was as a high school student circa 2000!

I can imagine! Yes, there's certainly a lot of primary sources available, though not always the ones one is looking for. I just finished reading Burt's Letters from the North of Scotland from the 1730's, for general context. It has some great descriptions of the building of Wade's roads!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

BTW, if you need any help with Swedish while reading up on Charles XII, let me know.

Oh, neat! Thanks, I will. (You don't happen to know any Russian, do you? Because while I might have a prayer at making heads or tails of Swedish, Russian is way out of my league.)

my main association is that unfortunately he has been adopted as a mascot by Nazis over here.

Ugh. This is what in the Fritz fandom we call "The Worst Fanboys."

From:

luzula

Sorry, no Russian! I have a number of Russian colleagues, but I don't know them well enough to ask such a thing...

From:

mildred_of_midgard

It was a long shot! (There's a Russian Peter III fan on DW/A03 I keep trying to get to join salon, or at least recommend me some books about Russian history, but she hasn't been inclined to do either.)