cahn | Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 30

In which, despite the title, I would like to be told about the English Revolution, which is yet another casualty of my extremely poor history education :P :)

Also, this is probably the place to say that RMSE opened with three Fritz-fics, all of which I think are readable with minimum canon knowledge:

The Boy Who Lived - if you knew about the doomed escape-from-Prussia-that-didn't happen and tragic death of Fritz's boyfriend Hans Hermann von Katte, you may not have known about Peter Keith, the third young man who conspired to escape Prussia -- and the only one who actually did. This is his story. I think readable without canon knowledge except what I just said here.

Challenge Yourself to Relax - My gift, I posted about this before! Corporate AU with my problematic fave, Fritz' brother Heinrich, who's still Fritz's l'autre moi-meme even in corporate AU. Readable without canon knowledge if one has familiarity with the corporate world and the dysfunctions thereof.

The Rise and Fall of the RendezvousWithFame Exchange - Fandom AU with BNF fanfic writer Voltaire, exchange mod Fritz, and the inevitable meltdown. (I wrote this one and am quite proud of the terrible physics-adjacent pun contained within.) Readable without canon knowledge if one has familiarity with fandom and the dysfunctions thereof :P

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

selenak

(I also think that Henry's tendency to push his lovers to achieve their potential inadvertently added to the pressures already on child prodigy Mara, which Mara coped with by increasingly heavy drinking. Whereas Kaphengst kept his chill by noping right out of the pressure and remaining a playboy. I've made him a "water off a duck's back" personality. I can't prove that's historical, but it's a guess I but rather more belief in than the BDSM aspects of their sex lives.

*nods* I can see that on both counts, and of course now wonder how the other boyfriends fit in. Kalckreuth certainly is someone who was both ambitious and gifted as a career military, and of course he got 7 Years Wars Heinrich, which was Heinrich both at his best (in the sense of being able to use all his considerable abilities and often far away from Fritz) and under maximum pressure himself (what with the war going on and fraternal tragedies happening), with it probably not being a coincidence that their breakup happens in peacetime, after Heinrich has time to fully feel the PTSD and the depression. Though my headcanon is that their reventual fallout would have happened anyway because Kalckreuth had this rising streak of possessiveness which Heinrich evidently didn't find sexy and for which my explanation is that Kalckreuth must have sensed Heinrich was less emotionally invested than he was. Otherwise he wouldn't have felt so insecure about Heinrich's other relationships. It's telling that while Lehndorff can't stand either Kalckreuth or Kaphengst while they're with Heinrich, Kalckreuth is the one who can't stand him right back while Kaphengst hardly seems to have noticed his existence.

Tauentzien is another career boy (so much so that he breaks up with Heinrich once it's clear that FW2 will keep his Uncle as far from politics as possible), and the last boyfriend, the Comte, is the rare case of someone who is into a military career - and will have it, and learns a lot from Heinrich - but who also basically takes the time to go private and just write military books so he can be with Heinrich until the later's death.

Your story was so great. Re: Fritz not getting therapy in it, I think that was definitely the right decision, it would have overburdened the story. Btw, speaking of fanfiction, have you two seen this discussion for RPF in this year's Yuletide?

From:

mildred_of_midgard

of course now wonder how the other boyfriends fit in

I picture Kalckreuth as one of the ones who didn't need Heinrich pushing him, and was strong-willed and opinionated enough that it caused them to clash. (Which is pretty much what I said in my fic.)

Kalckreuth had this rising streak of possessiveness which Heinrich evidently didn't find sexy

Agreed, I think the open relationship part was important to Heinrich.

and for which my explanation is that Kalckreuth must have sensed Heinrich was less emotionally invested than he was. Otherwise he wouldn't have felt so insecure about Heinrich's other relationships

For them specifically, this could very well be, but speaking generally, jealousy is hardly rational. People are insecure all the time with no reason--security or insecurity says more about you than the other person, honestly.

Tauentzien is another career boy (so much so that he breaks up with Heinrich once it's clear that FW2 will keep his Uncle as far from politics as possible), and the last boyfriend, the Comte, is the rare case of someone who is into a military career - and will have it, and learns a lot from Heinrich - but who also basically takes the time to go private and just write military books so he can be with Heinrich until the later's death.

Had forgotten both of these, thank you for the reminders!

Btw, speaking of fanfiction, have you two seen this discussion for RPF in this year's Yuletide?

Yes, and I've been checking to see if you were going to weigh in, because of the three of us, you're the most opinionated on RPF! Cahn and I have weighed in on the worldbuilding post, where we have more (and apparently opposite!) opinions.

Re RPF, I see the mods making a sincere effort to have a constructive discussion about this very problem, so I'm deliberately *not* snarking about how "Alexander the Great + James VI = Historical Royals" is narrow enough one year, but "Enlightenment" is too broad the next year.

From:

selenak

Had forgotten both of these, thank you for the reminders!

Every now and then, I wonder whether I could do a filk of Ex-Wives, the introduction song to the musical Six (about the Queens of Henry VIII.), one version of Fritz' boyfriends and one for Heinrich's. But the problem is that the red thread/emotional beat of that number and the entire musical is Henry VIII's awfulness and the wives' playful competition as to who had it worst, and that doesn't work for either brother and his boyfriends, I'd have to find something else.

Re RPF, I see the mods making a sincere effort to have a constructive discussion about this very problem, so I'm deliberately *not* snarking about how "Alexander the Great + James VI = Historical Royals" is narrow enough one year, but "Enlightenment" is too broad the next year.

Haha, I had forgotten the Alexander the Great + James VI" fandom example, but I, too, kept myself from snarking about "18th Century Enlightenment" being too broad just a year after "19th Century German literature RPF" was fine. (A fandom which would allow you to list both Goethe and Thomas Mann, for example.) Because yes, no point in derailing a constructive effort, and also I don't want to annoy mods who I hope will grant me my 16th Century Habsburg RPF.

From:

cahn

Hopefully more tonight, but -- yes, I also figured you would have more to say about RPF on that post :) History just seems awfully complicated because everyone does know everyone else ~~and had sex with Algarotti too~~ and it seems like a pity to have to divide up people-Fritz-knows and people-Voltaire-knows as we did last year, and seems like an arbitrary division when "Enlightenment" does connect them more closely. Although I can see why they might think it was too broad as well, and I can also see that they wouldn't want to be litigating "just how broad is Enlightenment anyway?" years down the line (like Historical Royals/19th Century German Lit, lol).

(I'll probably post something short like this on the yuletide post, if you guys think that's OK.)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

and it seems like a pity to have to divide up people-Fritz-knows and people-Voltaire-knows as we did last year

Ah, but I thought splitting them up was something we *wanted* to do, to get two fandoms for the price of one! (Given character nomination limits, and request and offer minimums.) It was having to rename it from "18C Enlightenment" to "Circle of Voltaire" that seemed arbitrary.

and had sex with Algarotti too

Ha!

From:

cahn

Oh, ha, you're right. (This is why I suck at history -- I can't even remember my own year-old fandom history!) But we can all agree it was silly to have to rename it :) (Even if Voltaire would have approved...)

From:

cahn

OK, I posted here:

https://yuletide-admin.dreamwidth.org/84171.html?view=1652939&posted=1#cmt1652939

From:

selenak

Admirably put, concise and in a nice manner, too. If I'd written anything, I would have sounded aggrieved, I bet. I stand in awe at your diplomatic focusing and phrasing skills.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Yes, very well put!

If I'd written anything, I would have sounded aggrieved, I bet.

Hard same, and that's why I didn't reply. (I could have made myself be as diplomatic as I intellectually believe the conversation should be, but setting my feelings aside and being objective would have taken a serious investment of time and emotional energy that I wasn't prepared to make.) In this case, it was best that the least emotionally invested of us replied!