Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 30

[cahn]

In which, despite the title, I would like to be told about the English Revolution, which is yet another casualty of my extremely poor history education :P :)

Also, this is probably the place to say that RMSE opened with three Fritz-fics, all of which I think are readable with minimum canon knowledge:

The Boy Who Lived - if you knew about the doomed escape-from-Prussia-that-didn't happen and tragic death of Fritz's boyfriend Hans Hermann von Katte, you may not have known about Peter Keith, the third young man who conspired to escape Prussia -- and the only one who actually did. This is his story. I think readable without canon knowledge except what I just said here.

Challenge Yourself to Relax - My gift, I posted about this before! Corporate AU with my problematic fave, Fritz' brother Heinrich, who's still Fritz's l'autre moi-meme even in corporate AU. Readable without canon knowledge if one has familiarity with the corporate world and the dysfunctions thereof.

The Rise and Fall of the RendezvousWithFame Exchange - Fandom AU with BNF fanfic writer Voltaire, exchange mod Fritz, and the inevitable meltdown. (I wrote this one and am quite proud of the terrible physics-adjacent pun contained within.) Readable without canon knowledge if one has familiarity with fandom and the dysfunctions thereof :P

Comments

Restoration Fiction using the Civil War Era

[selenak]

...for a significant part of the plot:

Charles II: The Power and the Passion: British miniseries, which in the US was called "Charles II: The Last King" (meaning the last absolute King, since brother James lost his crown and after the Glorious Revolution, monarchs had their power severely curtailed), but also significantly cut, with some subplots making less to no sense that way, so if you can, get the European version. It has a very good cast - Rufus Sewell as C2, Rupert Graves as B2, Helen McCrory as B2's cousin Barbara Villiers, later Lady Castlemaine, and one of C2's main mistresses, Diana Rigg as old Henrietta Maria, and Ian McDiarmid, Palpatine himself, as a good guy, Edward Hyde, C2's faithful advisor in exile whose Anne daughter James would get pregnant and then refuse to marry upon which brother C2 made him marry her, thus ensuring the existence of future Queens Mary and Anne. The series starts with C2 having a nightmare of his father's execution, and it haunts him through the show, though the series itself starts when C2 is already in exile. On the dvd, there's a good documentary about young C2 in his father's life time, growing up in the Civil War. Also: the series has a lot about the intense yet up and down relationship between C2 and B2, where as in historical reality you conclude the only reason not to slash them is that both were the type to have sex with whomever (willing) they wanted to have, and if they would have wanted to have sex with each other, they would have. But they were childhood friends growing up and going into exile together, and in the first episode, when B2 tells C2 he's had it with exile and has had an offer from the Cromwellians he can't refuse so will return, there is face cradling and touching and "don't do this to me, George" and you hardly see C2 this openly vulnerable with any of his mistresses. They have some more breakups and reconciliatons, when other people who do the kind of things B2 pulls just get banished or dropped.

The King's Touch, by Jude Morgan: novel about C2's oldest and for a long time favourite illegitimate son James aka Jemmy, later Duke of Monmouth. A full third of said novel is set before C2's coronation. I read a biography of Monmouth after I read this novel, and found to my surprise that several elements I had thought the author had invented, such as Jemmy's closeness to Minette, or Jemmy being in the process of reconciling with Dad when C2 dies, were in fact historical elements. This one even has an Oliver Cromwell cameo (Jemmy's mother tries to return to England due to being broke in exile, gets captured, interrogated and sent back to the Netherlands - this another thing I thought was invented, but yes, Cromwell did briefly see her and the kid). Very good with the exile years it is, too, the Restoration's hedonism springing directly in reaction to this (and the years of Puritan rule), and C2's personality in general.

Does not use the Civil War as background except in one significant scene but is a very watchable movie: Stage Beauty, the main characters of which are Ned Kynaston, the last male actor to play Desdemona (and some other female roles) on the English stage, and Margaret Hughes, the first female actress to play said roles, their rivalry and eventuall teaming up. It's a wonderful movie, but don't even try to guess at which date it's supposed to be set, because on the one hand, it's supposed to be shortly after C2's coronation, otoh, C2 is a middle-aged to old man instead of being in his late 20s/early 30s, wheras B2, who is one of Ned's patrons and lovers, is Ned's own age (i.e. young), C2's main mistress in this film is Nell Gwyn - which is a problem not so much because Nelly was his later years mistress but because she was an actress, and since the film is about the introduction of female actors on the English stage and Margaret Hughes as the first one, this is a problem.

All this aside, it's still a great film, and I've linked my review so you know why.

RL Margaret Hughes, btw, would end up as the mistress and life partner of C2's cousin Rupert, son of the Winter Queen, brother to HannoverSophie. Funny thing:

Nancy Goldstone in "The Winter Queen": In his later years, Rupert had a short fling with an actress, M.H., and secretly married a Catholic lady.

Wiki: In his later years, Rupert had a short fling with a Catholic lady and settled down with Margaret Hughes.

Self (who dimly recalls a novel about Peg Hughes where she does end up with Rupert): checks out the dates: they both had daughters from him which Rupert acknowledged, but Ms Hughes' daughter post dates Ms Bard's daughter, and also the actress, not the noble lady, was the one he lived with when he died, so in this case, Goldstone was wrong and wiki was right. Quote from Wiki: .

Towards the end of his life Rupert fell in love with an attractive Drury Lane actress named Peg Hughes. Rupert became involved with her during the late 1660s, leaving his previous mistress, Frances Bard, although Hughes appears to have held out from reciprocating his attentions with the aim of negotiating a suitable settlement. Hughes rapidly received advancement through his patronage; she became a member of the King's Company by 1669, giving her status and immunity from arrest for debt, and was painted four times by Sir Peter Lely, the foremost court artist of the day.

Despite being encouraged to do so, Rupert did not marry Hughes, but acknowledged their daughter, Ruperta (born in 1673 and who later became Mrs Emanuel Howe). Hughes lived an expensive lifestyle during the 1670s, enjoying gambling and jewels; Rupert gave her at least £20,000 worth of jewellery during their relationship, including several items from the Palatinate royal collection. Margaret continued to act even after Ruperta's birth, returning to the stage in 1676 with the prestigious Duke's Company at the Dorset Garden Theatre, near the Strand in London. The next year Rupert established Hughes with a "grand building" worth £25,000 that he bought in Hammersmith from Sir Nicholas Crispe. Rupert seems rather to have enjoyed the family lifestyle, commenting that his young daughter "already rules the whole house and sometimes argues with her mother, which makes us all laugh."

Rupert isn't in "Stage Beauty" at all, but that's okay, since it takes place at the start of Margaret Hughes' career.

Re: Restoration Fiction using the Civil War Era

[cahn]

Eeeeexcellent, thank you! Now that I have your amazing writeups, I don't need fiction anymore, but as mildred likes to say it certainly does help me to get multiple points of repetition for things to stick in my brain!

TV series are hard for me to watch but I will try -- it's below B5 though because I don't think I can convince E to watch it with me, lol -- but your writeup was fascinating and worth it anyway. Also, this part would have been worth it all on its own:

Also: the series has a lot about the intense yet up and down relationship between C2 and B2, where as in historical reality you conclude the only reason not to slash them is that both were the type to have sex with whomever (willing) they wanted to have, and if they would have wanted to have sex with each other, they would have.

LOL FOREVER

The King's Touch, by Jude Morgan:

This sounds lovely, and out of print; I've ordered a used copy. (lol, I think I could now make an entire shelf of books that's "books because of Selena" -- not even counting the ones mildred has digitized for me :P )

so in this case, Goldstone was wrong and wiki was right.

WHAT. Has this ever happened before?? :P :)

The next year Rupert established Hughes with a "grand building" worth £25,000 that he bought in Hammersmith from Sir Nicholas Crispe. Rupert seems rather to have enjoyed the family lifestyle, commenting that his young daughter "already rules the whole house and sometimes argues with her mother, which makes us all laugh."

Heh. Go Hughes :)