Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 30

[cahn]

In which, despite the title, I would like to be told about the English Revolution, which is yet another casualty of my extremely poor history education :P :)

Also, this is probably the place to say that RMSE opened with three Fritz-fics, all of which I think are readable with minimum canon knowledge:

The Boy Who Lived - if you knew about the doomed escape-from-Prussia-that-didn't happen and tragic death of Fritz's boyfriend Hans Hermann von Katte, you may not have known about Peter Keith, the third young man who conspired to escape Prussia -- and the only one who actually did. This is his story. I think readable without canon knowledge except what I just said here.

Challenge Yourself to Relax - My gift, I posted about this before! Corporate AU with my problematic fave, Fritz' brother Heinrich, who's still Fritz's l'autre moi-meme even in corporate AU. Readable without canon knowledge if one has familiarity with the corporate world and the dysfunctions thereof.

The Rise and Fall of the RendezvousWithFame Exchange - Fandom AU with BNF fanfic writer Voltaire, exchange mod Fritz, and the inevitable meltdown. (I wrote this one and am quite proud of the terrible physics-adjacent pun contained within.) Readable without canon knowledge if one has familiarity with fandom and the dysfunctions thereof :P

Comments

The English Civil War: C1 - the Family and the Execution

[selenak]

One thing even C1's worst enemies would not dispute is that he was one of the best art collectors and patrons the British monarchy has ever produced. Van Dyck (whose portraits of Charles and Henrietta Maria became iconic*) was but one of many, (then) living and dead; Rubens, Caravaggio, both Gentileschi (i.e. Artemesia and her father Orazio, who concluded his life as C1's court painter), you name the stellar Baroque painter, C1 bought his paintings. (Whereas he avoided the duds of the era. The man must have had great taste.) If the Royal Collection today is still one of the best, it's largely due to C1.

*Mind you, if you check out my summary of C1's niece Sophie of Hannover's memoirs, you'll find she snarked that when she first saw Henrietta Maria in person, she thought her aunt's teeth stood out lilke cannons from her mouth, very unlike Van Dyck's portrait...

However, like his grandmother, Mary Queen of Scots, he just wasn't good at ruling and very good at making enemies. His various conflicts with parliament weren't just about religion but also, often, money (as in, he wanted it, and parliament in whose power the budget was didn't want to give it to him after the various stunts he pulled). As a rule of thumb, he more often than not managed to be in the wrong, from today's perspective, with a notable (and sensational, which is why I'm telling you about it) exception: the Earl of Strafford, who was basically Charles' right hand man at the point where it gets sensational.

Parliament, attempting to show C1 who's boss: Strafford is a traitor!
C1: WTF?
P: Sure is. We'll impeach him for high treason.
Case against Strafford: *collapses in the House of Lords, where he's tried first*
Lords: Strafford is innocent.
House of Commons: Not the point. We won't even put on another trial. We'll just declare him guilty without one.
C1: *sends kid son future C2 to plead with the parliamentarians to spare Stafford's life, since clearly the guy is just a scapegoat in the tug of war between C1 and Parliament, has only been loyal to his King and never has done anything to deserve the death penalty*
Future C2, 11 years: *does so*
House of Commons: Nah. Off with his head!
Strafford: *gets executed*
C1 and Henrietta Maria: *decide any compromise with the Commons is out of the question now*
Kid C2: *learns a different lesson than the adults and starts to become a cynic about humanity*

Now, one very unusual thing about C1 and his kids was that as opposed to C1, Elizabeth and Henry, all of whom had in royal tradition been raised elsewhere, not with their parents, as children, C1 and Henrietta Maria's children were actually raised with them. Partly due to circumstance, since after C1 had lost London in the Civil War against parliament, he first made Oxford his alternate residence and then was on the move all the time - providing the kids with separate households would have made them easy targets to be captured. But this meant, for example, that future C2 and brother James were with their father all the time as kids and teens in a way few princes were, including on the battlefield, and they never forgot that experience. It explains a lot about both of them, though again, they drew different lessons from it.

Back to more cheerfull stuff.

C2: is the second of his parents' children born, but the first to survive. Henrietta Maria pronounced him ugly from birth, and he agreed - "Oddsfish, I am an ugly fellow", adult C2 would cheerfully declare - but he was witty, charming and as can be proved by the twelve years he'd spend in exile where female company couldn't have been due to royal prerogative or cash, neither of which were available at that time to him, what was later called a chick magnet. (This even worked postumously. Asked about her favourite royal predecessor, Queen Victoria stunned everyone by picking not a bona fide heroic figure like Henry V., the other famous Queen, Elizabeth I, or the very Christian Alfred the Great, but Charles II. Antonia Fraser, his biographer, famously admitted later to have developed a crush on him while writing the book.) He also was an excellent liar (unlike Dad). And deeply fond of the siblings he so unusually grew up with during a Civil War. Which is also the most likely answer to the question as to why C2, who, going by various quotes, could see James was heading towards the same direction as Dad did re ability to keep the kingdom, still kept him as a successor and even fought for him when his parliament wanted to disqualify James after James had come out as a Catholic.

C2's nurse/first governess Christabel in a circumstance that would have delighted Freud returned to his life mid Civil War when C2 was fourteen or fifteen and deflowered him. Supposedly this was Henrietta Maria's idea, just as her sister-in-law Anne of Austria would order a trusted lady-in-waiting to deflower her oldest son, C2's cousin Louis XIV. Micromanaging the future King's loss of virginity was supposed to preclude some ambitious noble family getting their chance there. (I.e. by choosing older, trusted women who couldn't possibly be potential brides and were no virgins.) But yeah, Freud would not have been surprised at all.

One thing C1 managed in the English Civil War which Louis XVI. didn't manage in the French Revolution was getting his wife and kids out of the country in time. Well, most of them. Two - Elizabeth and Henry, named after C1's siblings - were still in the country and in fact with Charles shortly before he died, when he took a tender farewell from them and made little Henry promise he would not allow Parliament to use him against his brother and make him King instead of C2. But the rest - C2, James, Mary, and the youngest, little Henriette Anne (whom C2 would later nickname "Minette") as well as Henrietta Maria were all either in the Netherlands (where Mary had married the current William of Orange and would give birth to the most famous William of Orange, the one later to reign in Britain) or at the French Court (since Henrietta Maria was Louis XIV's aunt). The youngest sister, Minette, was in fact smuggled out of the country disguised as a boy (and nearly gave the game away at Dover by telling the soldiers controlling Lady Dalkeith, the lady-in-waiting in charge of her, "Je ne suis pas Pierre - suis princesse!"). Minette would grow up entirely in France and become the unfortunate first wife of her cousin Philippe d'Orleans (yes, the gay one). More about her and her relationship to her brother C2 here. Mary, as mentioned, married into Dutch royalty. Little Elizabeth died as a teen. Young Henry (Duke of Gloucester) lived long enough together with C2 and James in exile to see C2 called back to Britain and the monarchy restored, but not by much. As mentioned in an earlier comment, his mother, Henrietta Maria, who in her later years became ever more hardcore Catholic (and she hadn't been exactly soft core to begin with), put massive pressure on Henry to convert to Catholicism, and when Henry refused, she cast him out and refused to see him when he was dying of smallpox. He's another "What if?" since if he had survived, he'd been a good alternative to James as King.

As far as Henrietta Maria was concerned, her dead husband C1 had been a martyred saint (in fact, the Anglican Church did later adopt him as such, I'm told, though whether he currently still holds that status I don't know), and had been a Catholic in his heart. Otoh, Elizabeth the soon to die who was 13 when her father was executed wrote an account of hers and Henry's last meeting with him, which went thusly:

He bid us tell my mother that his thoughts had never strayed from her, and that his love would be the same to the last. Withal, he commanded me and my brother to be obedient to her; and bid me send his blessing to the rest of my brothers and sisters, with communications to all his friends. Then, taking my brother Gloucester on his knee, he said, 'Sweetheart, now they will cut off thy father's head.' And Gloucester looking very intently upon him, he said again, 'Heed, my child, what I say: they will cut off my head and perhaps make thee a king. But mark what I say. Thou must not be a king as long as thy brothers Charles and James do live; for they will cut off your brothers' heads when they can catch them, and cut off thy head too at the last, and therefore I charge you, do not be made a king by them.' At which my brother sighed deeply, and made answer: 'I will be torn in pieces first!' And these words, coming so unexpectedly from so young a child, rejoiced my father exceedingly. And his majesty spoke to him of the welfare of his soul, and to keep his religion, commanding him to fear God, and He would provide for him. Further, he commanded us all to forgive those people, but never to trust them; for they had been most false to him and those that gave them power, and he feared also to their own souls. And he desired me not to grieve for him, for he should die a martyr, and that he doubted not the Lord would settle his throne upon his son, and that we all should be happier than we could have expected to have been if he had lived; with many other things which at present I cannot remember.

As can be seen in the Horrible Histories sketch, C1 did wear two shirts so he would not shiver at his execution (and thus give his enemies the satisfaction of deeming him a coward). Like his grandmother Mary Queen of Scots, he died with undeniable courage and style and after tender farewells from his loved ones, none of which changed the fact he had been a lousy monarch. Could he have avoided this death (other than through escaping the country, that is)? Probably, up to a point. Cromwell et all didn't intend to abolish the monarchy as such until very late in the game, when it was obvious C1, whatever open concession he'd make once captured, would not regard himself bound by them and behind their backs wrote to his loyalists accordingly. But C1, like Grandmother Mary Stuart, was convinced that as a monarch, he could not be judged by any jury, since it was by necessity one of subjects, not equals. He didn't have an equal on the British Isles and thus any judgment by Parliament in his eyes was null and void.

Charles' execution as depicted in various media:

Alec Guinness getting executed in the Cromwell biopic

C1 getting executed in TO KILL A KING (docudrama) - here the voiceover while C1 walks to his death is in fact an authentic speech of his apropos his trial

Re: The English Civil War: C1 - the Family and the Execution

[cahn]

with a notable (and sensational, which is why I'm telling you about it) exception

LOL, it's like you know me or something! (although I am always interested in exceptions, because they usually turn out to be at least somewhat interesting even if they're not sensational)

Kid C2: *learns a different lesson than the adults and starts to become a cynic about humanity*

Man. I mean, poor Strafford for sure, but also poor kid.

It explains a lot about both of them, though again, they drew different lessons from it.

What would you say they learned?

"Oddsfish, I am an ugly fellow", adult C2 would cheerfully declare - but he was witty, charming and ... what was later called a chick magnet.

Ha, and this also shows he could laugh at himself, which is definitely attractive :P

but Charles II. Antonia Fraser, his biographer, famously admitted later to have developed a crush on him while writing the book.

I mean. Honestly I have a little crush on him myself after reading your "escape" writeup particularly :D

after James had come out as a Catholic.

Huhhhhh, wow, mom was really hardcore there??

C2's nurse/first governess Christabel in a circumstance that would have delighted Freud returned to his life mid Civil War when C2 was fourteen or fifteen and deflowered him.

LOL Honestly I don't need the scandalous sex bits but I do appreciate that I can always trust you to bring the actual gossipy sensationalism! HA.

(and nearly gave the game away at Dover by telling the soldiers controlling Lady Dalkeith, the lady-in-waiting in charge of her, "Je ne suis pas Pierre - suis princesse!")

okay, that is super cute, the more so because she didn't actually end up giving the game away

And his majesty spoke to him of the welfare of his soul, and to keep his religion, commanding him to fear God, and He would provide for him.

OMG. I can't EVEN about poor Henry, first his dad saying that to him and then his mom putting the thumbscrews on to convert. ARRRRRGH.

Re: The English Civil War: C1 - the Family and the Execution

[selenak]

And then he dies of smallpox. :( Yes, poor Henry indeed. In the C2 miniseries' first episode, the script lets Charles point out to their mother that Dad explicitly told Henry to keep his religion, and Henrietta Maria retorts that clearly, her sainted late husband either didn't say that or if he did he meant the CATHOLIC religion he'd surely have converted to in his heart.

C2 spends a lot of time in this series headdesking between hardcore Protestant fanatics - who see "Popish plots" everywhere - and hardcore Catholic fanatics in his own family. (Mom and James, mainly.) Later on there was also this religious divide among his mistresses. One of the famous anecdotes from late in Charles' reign was when the people spotted a carriage with one of the royal mistresses inside, they first thought it was Louise de Kerroulle, Duchess of Portsmouth (French, Catholic) and yelled "Catholic Whore!", whereupon the mistress in question, Nell Gwyn, got out of the carriage and said "Good people, calm down - I am the Protestant whore!" Whereupon the people cheered her and let her pass.

Nell the actress had a similar reputation for wit as Charles did, whom she nicknamed "her Charles the Third" because two of her previous lovers also had the name Charles as their first name. When Charles died, his last words to brother James were "Be good to Portsmouth" (i.e. Louise) "and let not poor Nelly starve". Which in terms of sheer contrast to how his father died sort of sums up their different lives and mentality. :)

While I'm listing famous quotes, I'll remind you again of Charles' reaction to finding young Jack Churchill (future Duke of Marlborough, but for now, just a boytoy) with his mistress Barbara Villiers: "Young man, I forgive you, for I know you make your living this way."

And there's the famous summing up of C2 by Restoration bad boy Rochester, the son of Lord Wilmot the escape companion:

We have a pretty witty king,
Whose word no man relies on;
Who never says a foolish thing,
Nor ever does a wise one.
--

To which C2, proving Rochester's point, retorted: "This is very true: for my words are my own, and my actions are my ministers'...."

Then there's the quip which got ascribed to a couple of people after C2 as well, so it might be apocryphal: "I have always admired virtue, but I could never imitate it."

When especially annoyed with brother James, on an occasion when James told him not to be too familiar with people, because of assassination plots: "I am sure no man in England will take away my life to make you King."

Religion and sin: He [Charles II] said once to myself, he was no atheist, but he could not think God would make a man miserable only for taking a little pleasure out of the way.

and finally, on what makes a good joke vs a bad one: Good jests ought to bite like lambs, not dogs: they should cut, not wound.

On what James and Charles learned during their childhood and youth in the Civil War:

James: Dad was totally in the right, and if anything too much of a gentleman, too soft! That's what got him killed! If you give the rabble an inch, they'll take a mile! Royal pride forever! We're the champions of the uuuuuuuuniverse!

Charles: Never let yourself caught in a position without a bolthole, when in company, put people at ease, no matter whether they're nobles or commoners, even if you can't stand them, and above all, never let anyone know what you truly think. Proud declarations are for martyrs, and I have no intention of becoming one.

Re: The English Civil War: C1 - the Family and the Execution

[cahn]

And then he dies of smallpox. :( Yes, poor Henry indeed.

His mom refusing to see him thing is COLD. :(

Henrietta Maria retorts that clearly, her sainted late husband either didn't say that or if he did he meant the CATHOLIC religion he'd surely have converted to in his heart.

Heh, that rings true as lame justifications go :P

Which in terms of sheer contrast to how his father died sort of sums up their different lives and mentality. :)

Lol! I did watch the Horrible Histories with the kids today (we all enjoyed it, although I seem somehow to have raised kids who aren't into musicals?? so they were mostly politely confused by the musical part -- well, okay, also because they had not read your writeups -- but we all really enjoyed the rapid-fire war "forecast" part) and, well, I hadn't gotten "Charles II party boy" out of your writeups, but I have now :D

"Young man, I forgive you, for I know you make your living this way."

Loooool! I had forgotten that was C2, probably because I didn't know anything about him then! This is great, now I feel like I have this missing puzzle piece :D

"This is very true: for my words are my own, and my actions are my ministers'...."

Heh.

When especially annoyed with brother James, on an occasion when James told him not to be too familiar with people, because of assassination plots: "I am sure no man in England will take away my life to make you King."

Lolololol, this is my favorite.

James: Dad was totally in the right, and if anything too much of a gentleman, too soft! That's what got him killed! If you give the rabble an inch, they'll take a mile! Royal pride forever! We're the champions of the uuuuuuuuniverse!

Charles: Never let yourself caught in a position without a bolthole, when in company, put people at ease, no matter whether they're nobles or commoners, even if you can't stand them, and above all, never let anyone know what you truly think. Proud declarations are for martyrs, and I have no intention of becoming one.

Oh man. and... a quick look at wikipedia looks like it didn't work out too well for him, whoops. Gotta admire the political survivors :)