He used to wake up late, hold court from bed, invite the Ruspanti in, get increasingly drunk throughout the evening/night, and go to sleep sometime in the wee hours of the morning. I imagine the things that got done happened first thing in the "morning," before he got too drunk. I also suspect there was a lot of delegating; i.e. him making the decision and someone else actually making it happen. So it might not have been all that time-consuming to go, "Yeah, that stupid law? That's revoked. Also the other one. Make it so."
So I found another visitor who saw Gian Gastone in his bedridden years and wrote about it: Pöllnitz, 1731! Furthermore, the exact schedule, down to the hour, given by Acton is in Pöllnitz, as well as the observation that GG dined often alone and always in bed. Now, since everyone agrees bedridden GG's life was pretty much the same for the rest of his life ("The history of one day is the history of a year," in Acton's words), these habits may have been reported in multiple places (and I'm sure they were), but I'm thinking Pöllnitz is one of Acton's sources. Check out the linguistic similarity:
Acton:
The Grand Duke's levee was at noon, when those who had business with him were summoned to his bedchamber. He constantly dined at five o'clock in the evening, and supped at two in the morning. He always ate alone, and generally in bed.
Pöllnitz:
His Levee is not till Noon, and then he sends for such as he has Business with to his Bedchamber...He dines at Five o'Clock in the Evening, and sups at Two in the Morning: He always eats alone, commonly in his Bed.
Pöllnitz also confirms my guess that GG's "productivity" in revoking various laws was mostly a matter of making a decision and then saying "Make it so":
I thought that the Grand Duke would be very much taken up with his Ministers; but I was soon inform'd that he left all Matters intirely to the Management of his Ministers.
The encounter between Pöllnitz and GG has its moments:
Pöllnitz: Well, the Grand Duke is supposed to be completely inaccessible, so I suppose there's no chance I'll ever get to see him. Oh well! I'll go pay my respects to his sister, the Electress.
*As he is leaving the Electress' apartments*
Valet: Sir, the Grand Duke very much wants to see you!
Pöllnitz: Me? No, I'm just a traveling German, he can't possibly want to see me. You must have me confused with someone else!
Valet: No, he definitely said you. You're Baron Pöllnitz, right?
Pöllnitz: Yeeess...but perhaps there is some other Baron Pöllnitz in the neighborhood? I mean, he's impossible to talk to, why on earth would he pick me out of everyone? I just got here the other day!
Valet: No, no, no, I see where you're coming from now, but the impossible to talk to part only applies to Floretines! He likes Germans. Germans are his fave! He developed a taste for them in Prague. Don't worry, you're about 3 times too old for his taste. But for totally platonic reasons, he totally wants to see you. [Okay, the valet didn't say all this, I'm interpolating based on other things Pöllnitz said elsewhere in the text plus things we know. But Pöllnitz definitely took some convincing that he was really the one GG wanted to see.]
Pöllnitz: Oh, okay. If you're sure.
Pöllnitz arriving in GG's chamber: Hmm, there are lapdogs everywhere, his clothes are smeared in snuff, it smells terrible...
[Mildred: Get used to it. It's practice for later.]
GG: Hey, Pöllnitz, how come you didn't want to come visit me? I'm playfully offended. I knew your dad! How are things in Berlin these days? Tell me about all the changes since I was there.
Pöllnitz: Well, let's see, F1 was in charge when you were there, and it's now 1731, meaning FW is hitting his peak, so...how much time you got?
GG: Oh, hey, speaking of the time, I know 2 pm is way too early to be drinking, but I'm an alcoholic, and I've got some awesome alcohol I want you to taste. Have a dram!
Pöllnitz: Thank you, I'm deeply honored, but the thing is, I never drink drams, and-
GG: But it is the age of monarchs forcing visitors to drink! Have a dram. I'll have one too. Have another dram. Have a third dram! I'll match you drink for drink.
Pöllnitz: Mercy, mercy! [Literally: "I was just going to fall at his Knees, and to beg Quarter, when, as good Luck would have it, Joannino [sic!] his favourite Valet de Chambre came in, and whisper'd something in his Ear."]
GG: Okay, you can go, and have fun, but don't leave Florence without saying goodbye. I mean it!
Pöllnitz: And then I went back to my inn and GG had sent me enough food and drink for 3 months. Have fun indeed!
And then the Ruspanti! Allow me to explain the Ruspanti. They are "Pensioners of the Grand Duke," which is a euphemism the likes of which won't be seen again until Peter Keith has to leave his post at Wesel "due to circumstances."
They consist of all Nations, but of Germans more than any other. They wear no Livery, nor are they all clad alike, and they are only known by their Locks, which are always very much curld and powder'd.
Did I mention the Duke likes Germans? Getting to pay him a bedroom visit is
an Honour which the Florentines don't easily attain to, for he seems to be fondest of the German Nation, whose Language he speaks well, and pretends even to know its various Dialects.
Mildred: Hey, that might explain Knobelsdorff getting in as well!]
GG: Okay, come say goodbye!
Pöllnitz: We talked for 3 hours on a thousand subjects, and then I left Florence, where, if the Grand Duke ever had sex, you will not know about it from reading my account. At first Mildred wondered if the editor had done some redacting, but since the book was published in 1737, it seems less likely.
*
If you're inspired to check out Pöllnitz's other travel anecdotes, including his opinions of FW and FW's ministers, volumes 1 and 2 are now in the library.
Btw, note that Pöllnitz was in Italy in 1730-1731, so anything he writes about Katte and 1730 he must have gotten from elsewhere (though he was in Berlin in 1729, so he could just have met Katte), and as we've seen, Wilhelmine must have been a significant part of "elsewhere."
ETA: Though not cited for the passage I mentioned, Pöllnitz is mentioned once in the main text of Acton and is in the bibliography, so he's definitely one of the sources Acton is drawing on.
Wow, nice! That's... a pretty interesting travel story :P :)
GG: But it is the age of monarchs forcing visitors to drink! Have a dram. I'll have one too. Have another dram. Have a third dram! I'll match you drink for drink.
Pöllnitz: Mercy, mercy! [Literally: "I was just going to fall at his Knees, and to beg Quarter, when, as good Luck would have it, Joannino [sic!] his favourite Valet de Chambre came in, and whisper'd something in his Ear."]
Huh, this was unexpected! Pöllnitz sure gets around. (And he likes to tell anecdotes, so I feel like I should take anything he says with a grain of salt when it comes to embellishments? Not sure.)
But it is the age of monarchs forcing visitors to drink!
Seriously! What is it with that. But, you know, since Pöllnitz occasionally attended the Tobacco Parliament (or maybe only in the later 30s?), he really should have been used to that.
Mildred: Hey, that might explain Knobelsdorff getting in as well!
Possibly. He says all foreigners had an easier time than the locals, but who knows, maybe being German helped him as well. I feel like he wasn't exactly the right temperament for GG, though, and he sure didn't seem prone to embellishments.
And I see that you got an English version of the memoirs. I actually had a look at a German version quite some time ago, but gave up after a couple of pages, because damn, that was work and I was lacking context. Seems like the translation is somewhat easier.
Ha, in hindsight, I was thinking it shouldn't have been--what is Pöllnitz known for, after all, if not traveling and accruing stories?
But, you know, since Pöllnitz occasionally attended the Tobacco Parliament (or maybe only in the later 30s?), he really should have been used to that.
My thoughts exactly!
I feel like he wasn't exactly the right temperament for GG, though
Myeah, no, does not seem like it. I'll believe Pöllnitz was more his type. Also, when Knobelsdorff was there, GG was dying, so may have been miserable enough that no good stories were going to happen.
And I see that you got an English version of the memoirs. I actually had a look at a German version quite some time ago, but gave up after a couple of pages, because damn, that was work and I was lacking context. Seems like the translation is somewhat easier.
I mean, even with the English version, which I found a couple years ago, I looked at it and had no context for who any of these people were, so I set it down again. Then I ran into it again this week, and did some skimming, and was like, "Hey, I know who this person is, and also this one, and also this one--I should check these out again!"
We'll see if I end up with the time, but they're back on my radar now.
Wilhelmine was similiar, in that I did read v. 1 of her memoirs at the beginning of salon because I obviously knew who her immediate family were, but the reread a year later took me from "Manteuffel who?" to "Oh, Manteuffel the silver fox!" :P
Wilhelmine was similiar, in that I did read v. 1 of her memoirs at the beginning of salon because I obviously knew who her immediate family were, but the reread a year later took me from "Manteuffel who?" to "Oh, Manteuffel the silver fox!" :P
Oh HUH, maybe I should pick these up again! Although I feel like I will still be confused with all the "my sister" and "the hereditary Prince" and so on...
Volume 1 definitely improves on rereading! Especially now that Selena has told us about the bonkers Clement episode. I'm looking forward to rereading in French so I can pick up on even more things than I did when I read it in German.
Volume 2 is boring no matter what. :P Read the beginning and end (at least through Christmas 1732) and let the middle go.
Allow me to explain the Ruspanti. They are "Pensioners of the Grand Duke," which is a euphemism the likes of which won't be seen again until Peter Keith has to leave his post at Wesel "due to circumstances."
LOL. Briefly browsing through the volumes, I can see Pöllnitz' general tendency when writing about the courts he visited is to do so with a policy of "I want to be invited there again and not piss off the ruling monarch". I mean, if you write that "all of Saxony" applauded A3 appointing Sulkowski & Brühl, you're clearly not going for Watergate type of reporting. Though some of his compliments can be, if one squints interpreted as maaaaaybe tongue in cheek, as when he says SD inherited all of her father G1's wonderful qualities that made him so universally beloved. Ahem.
This said, he might have been censored by his British translator and/or editor, given the prefaces which do a bit of moralizing, as in: "es, it can't be denied Pöllnitz was a Catholic when writing these volumes! But he wasn't as stupid and evil and superstitious and intriguing as Catholics generally are, he's since seen the light as FW offered him a job, and now is a proper enlightened Protestant!" Or, where Pöllnitz sounds sympathetic about Countess Cosel being currently locked up with nothing else to do but to ponder the change of her fortunes, the waspish editor/translator adds a footnote saying she only has herself to blame for her fate, it was self defense on August's part! Also "we have received news" that she was released. (Fake news, clearly.)
Of interest to us: Pöllnitz writes admiringly about the Countess Orzelska that he only saw her in "Amazonian" wardrobe, i.e. dressed as a man, and that she makes an extremely dashing, handsome guy. I was wondering where all the "Orzelska loved dressing up in male wardrobe" from more novelistic treatments of Fritz' youth hails from.
Also described as quite the looker: recently retired Manteuffel, PRIVATE citizen: He is pretty tall, well set, has a grand Air, and is one of the handsomest Men that I have seen . His Behaviour is noble and easy , he has a good Fund of Learning, an extraordinary Memory , and such a Happiness of expressing himself that when he talks he never fails to give Pleasure.
And Pöllnitz finally tells me how the Hoym who is Manteuffel's arch nemesis is related to the Hoym who was married to Cosel before August's eye fell on her - they were brothers. No time to read more for now, alas, But I'm glad, Mildred, you read and summarized the Gian Gastone encounter and pointed us towards the volumes!
Of interest to us: Pöllnitz writes admiringly about the Countess Orzelska that he only saw her in "Amazonian" wardrobe, i.e. dressed as a man, and that she makes an extremely dashing, handsome guy.
I mean, this is the kind of gossipy sensationalism "hot or not?" crossdressing I come to salon for! :D
Poelnitz votes that the woman who may or may not have deflowered Fritz was definitely hot!
The Countess of Orzelka, who was born at Warsaw , of one Renard a French Woman, and bred up in the Roman Catholic Faith : She is of a good Stature, and very charming. Of all the late King's legitimated Children his Majesty seem 'd to be fond est of this. She was at first very much neglected , and it did not appear that the King ever intended to own her. But Count Rotofski seeing her at War saw in a Plight too mean for her Birth took the freedom to mention her to the King her Father , and told him that she merited some Kindness from him. The King thereupon desir' d to see her, and she came into his Presence in the Amazonian Habit, which was her favourite Dress. The King thought she resembled him very much, and not being able to resist the tender Impressions of Nature he embrac'd her, and callid her his Daughter. At the same time he order'd the whole Court to acknownledge her in that Quality, gave her a magnificent Palace , with Diamonds without number, and settled great Pensions on her . ' Tis certain , in short, that never was Daughter more like her Father ; she had the same Features, Temper and Genius. It was impossible for her to be handsomer with a more grand Air , She is fond of Magnificence, Expence , and Pleasures, One of her Diversions is to dress in Mens Apparel. It was in this Habit that I saw her the first time, when she was on horseback , in a pur ple Habit embroider 'd with Silver , and wore the blue Ribband of Poland. Being all alone, I could not learn who she was, but really took her to be some young Foreign Nobleman whom I had not yet seen. I never beheld any body fit better than she did on horseback , or have a more amiable Air ; insomuch , that many Ladies Ladies would have been glad of a Lover so handsome. The same evening I saw her at the Ball, where she was still dress'd like a Man, only her Habit was more rich than it was in the morning, and her dishevelld Locks of Hair hung down in fine Curls about her Shoulders ; so that Cupid himself was not more tempting when he appear'd before Psyche. Her goed Mien , and the graceful Air with which I saw her dance a Minuet, made me inquire who this pretty Youth was ? Count Rotofski, who overheard me, made answer, The young Man whom you admire wou'd do you no great harm if you were a Woman, but may posibly hurt you as the Case stands ; but come along with me, continued he, taking me by the Hand, I will make him known to you , then leave you to come off with him as well as you can, I guess’d by these Words that the Person he was going to usher me to was the Countess Orzelska ; and I was confirmed in my Suspicion when I heard Count Rotofski say to her, "Sister , here is a Gentleman who has all due Respects for you, and whom I'll engage will be ready to serve you in whatever you shall require of him . Madamoiselle Orzelska smiling at this Discourse , I saluted her with all the Respect which I ow 'd to her Rank.
BTW, had another quick look, and Pöllnitz, who passed through Bayreuth before Wilhelmine got there, confirms that the Old Margrave for austerity reasons (his own father had been a big spender) really let the place go down. I've always wondered whether or not she exaggarated in her first impressions. Now, Pöllnitz loves splendor so he's hardly unbiased, but he does write this early description independent from her and he also describes it as a shabby hellhole. Wilhelmine and her own Margrave later got accused on spending far too much money on buildings, but, well, there was a certain need, it seems...
Count Rotofski, who overheard me, made answer, The young Man whom you admire wou'd do you no great harm if you were a Woman, but may posibly hurt you as the Case stands
heeeeee I love this!
The King thereupon desir' d to see her, and she came into his Presence in the Amazonian Habit, which was her favourite Dress. The King thought she resembled him very much, and not being able to resist the tender Impressions of Nature he embrac'd her, and callid her his Daughter.
This is giving me all kinds of hilarious feelings, first because of the Amazonian Habit leading to August the Strong being all "hey, you look a lot like me!" and second because I am totally laughing reading this given the rumor that they were also lovers. But anyway :D
Well, if anyone would consider it sexy to have an affair with a younger female self, it would be a baroque prince like August the Strong!
Mind you, between this and "SD has inherited all of G1's wonderful qualities!" I'm sideeying Pöllnitz' propensity to consider "she's like her Dad!" as a compliment and losing hope it could be sarcasm in SD's case. Otoh, Orzelska being hot is treated as fact in other sources as well, and if she looked like a dashing young man in her "Amazonian habit" it certainly enhances the likelhood of her being young Fritz' first sexual experience!
Ha, that's very true! I could totally see Orzelska being a really useful sort of person for Fritz to have come across, so that he could see what this whole sex-with-women thing was about but also with a hot person who looked like a dashing young man :)
You're right, that might have been part of the appeal!
I'm now thinking of Formela, the dancer that Wilhelmine says was actually Fritz's first (iirc, he and Orzelska didn't consummate until her visit to Berlin), and Voltaire's comment that what Fritz liked about Barbarina was her muscular legs. Perhaps the same was true of Formela! #QuestioningGayBoy
Otoh, Orzelska being hot is treated as fact in other sources as well, and if she looked like a dashing young man in her "Amazonian habit" it certainly enhances the likelhood of her being young Fritz' first sexual experience!
The Orzelska passage was interesting on its own, but yes, this, too! I like it.
Though some of his compliments can be, if one squints interpreted as maaaaaybe tongue in cheek, as when he says SD inherited all of her father G1's wonderful qualities that made him so universally beloved. Ahem.
Uhhh, I choose to believe that was tongue-in-cheek, because otherwise--WHAT??
he's since seen the light as FW offered him a job, and now is a proper enlightened Protestant!"
cahn, Pöllnitz is the one Fritz is reported as having teased with, "If I pay you, will you change your religion a fifth time? Come on, the first four times weren't that hard, and you're getting paid!"
Of interest to us: Pöllnitz writes admiringly about the Countess Orzelska that he only saw her in "Amazonian" wardrobe, i.e. dressed as a man, and that she makes an extremely dashing, handsome guy. I was wondering where all the "Orzelska loved dressing up in male wardrobe" from more novelistic treatments of Fritz' youth hails from.
Oh, nice find! I knew I wanted to point you to these memoirs. :D
No time to read more for now, alas
Your loyal readers will hold you to the "for now"! :)
[personal profile] cahn, Pöllnitz is the one Fritz is reported as having teased with, "If I pay you, will you change your religion a fifth time? Come on, the first four times weren't that hard, and you're getting paid!"
ahahaha oh right! And didn't the story go that he changed it again and Fritz was like "haha just kidding"?
I'd forgotten, thank you! despite just having read it not that long ago when rereading bits of Orieux for, well, never mind that now.
Also described as quite the looker: recently retired Manteuffel
So, funnily enough, after telling us that Other Seckendorff wrote that
Mantteuffel - le Diable - reports that Fritz after dinner after showing him 'all the tendernesses imaginable', took him into his room afterwards and there confided in him about this family,
...you asked:
So did he have sex with Mantteuffel, and do we count Mantteuffel among the boyfriends or the witty pretties?
To which my reaction was, "Not to be ageist, but he is 60 and Fritz is 24..."
But now that I know he was still quite a looker in the 1730s, I have adjusted my assessment of the odds. :P
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timeasmymeasure
Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-13 12:47 am (UTC)So I found another visitor who saw Gian Gastone in his bedridden years and wrote about it: Pöllnitz, 1731! Furthermore, the exact schedule, down to the hour, given by Acton is in Pöllnitz, as well as the observation that GG dined often alone and always in bed. Now, since everyone agrees bedridden GG's life was pretty much the same for the rest of his life ("The history of one day is the history of a year," in Acton's words), these habits may have been reported in multiple places (and I'm sure they were), but I'm thinking Pöllnitz is one of Acton's sources. Check out the linguistic similarity:
Acton:
The Grand Duke's levee was at noon, when those who had business with him were summoned to his bedchamber. He constantly dined at five o'clock in the evening, and supped at two in the morning. He always ate alone, and generally in bed.
Pöllnitz:
His Levee is not till Noon, and then he sends for such as he has Business with to his Bedchamber...He dines at Five o'Clock in the Evening, and sups at Two in the Morning: He always eats alone, commonly in his Bed.
Pöllnitz also confirms my guess that GG's "productivity" in revoking various laws was mostly a matter of making a decision and then saying "Make it so":
I thought that the Grand Duke would be very much taken up with his Ministers;
but I was soon inform'd that he left all Matters intirely to the Management of his Ministers.
The encounter between Pöllnitz and GG has its moments:
Pöllnitz: Well, the Grand Duke is supposed to be completely inaccessible, so I suppose there's no chance I'll ever get to see him. Oh well! I'll go pay my respects to his sister, the Electress.
*As he is leaving the Electress' apartments*
Valet: Sir, the Grand Duke very much wants to see you!
Pöllnitz: Me? No, I'm just a traveling German, he can't possibly want to see me. You must have me confused with someone else!
Valet: No, he definitely said you. You're Baron Pöllnitz, right?
Pöllnitz: Yeeess...but perhaps there is some other Baron Pöllnitz in the neighborhood? I mean, he's impossible to talk to, why on earth would he pick me out of everyone? I just got here the other day!
Valet: No, no, no, I see where you're coming from now, but the impossible to talk to part only applies to Floretines! He likes Germans. Germans are his fave!
He developed a taste for them in Prague. Don't worry, you're about 3 times too old for his taste.But for totally platonic reasons, he totally wants to see you. [Okay, the valet didn't say all this, I'm interpolating based on other things Pöllnitz said elsewhere in the text plus things we know. But Pöllnitz definitely took some convincing that he was really the one GG wanted to see.]Pöllnitz: Oh, okay. If you're sure.
Pöllnitz arriving in GG's chamber: Hmm, there are lapdogs everywhere, his clothes are smeared in snuff, it smells terrible...
[Mildred: Get used to it. It's practice for later.]
GG: Hey, Pöllnitz, how come you didn't want to come visit me? I'm playfully offended. I knew your dad! How are things in Berlin these days? Tell me about all the changes since I was there.
Pöllnitz: Well, let's see, F1 was in charge when you were there, and it's now 1731, meaning FW is hitting his peak, so...how much time you got?
GG: Oh, hey, speaking of the time, I know 2 pm is way too early to be drinking, but I'm an alcoholic, and I've got some awesome alcohol I want you to taste. Have a dram!
Pöllnitz: Thank you, I'm deeply honored, but the thing is, I never drink drams, and-
GG: But it is the age of monarchs forcing visitors to drink! Have a dram. I'll have one too. Have another dram. Have a third dram! I'll match you drink for drink.
Pöllnitz: Mercy, mercy! [Literally: "I was just going to fall at his Knees, and to beg Quarter, when, as good Luck would have it, Joannino [sic!] his favourite Valet de Chambre came in, and whisper'd something in his Ear."]
GG: Okay, you can go, and have fun, but don't leave Florence without saying goodbye. I mean it!
Pöllnitz: And then I went back to my inn and GG had sent me enough food and drink for 3 months. Have fun indeed!
And then the Ruspanti! Allow me to explain the Ruspanti. They are "Pensioners of the Grand Duke," which is a euphemism the likes of which won't be seen again until Peter Keith has to leave his post at Wesel "due to circumstances."
They consist of all Nations, but of Germans more than any other. They wear no Livery, nor are they all clad alike, and they are only known by their Locks, which are always very much curld and powder'd.
Did I mention the Duke likes Germans? Getting to pay him a bedroom visit is
an Honour which the Florentines don't easily attain to, for he seems to be fondest of the German Nation, whose Language he speaks well, and pretends even to know its various Dialects.
Mildred: Hey, that might explain Knobelsdorff getting in as well!]
GG: Okay, come say goodbye!
Pöllnitz: We talked for 3 hours on a thousand subjects, and then I left Florence, where, if the Grand Duke ever had sex, you will not know about it from reading my account. At first Mildred wondered if the editor had done some redacting, but since the book was published in 1737, it seems less likely.
*
If you're inspired to check out Pöllnitz's other travel anecdotes, including his opinions of FW and FW's ministers, volumes 1 and 2 are now in the library.
Btw, note that Pöllnitz was in Italy in 1730-1731, so anything he writes about Katte and 1730 he must have gotten from elsewhere (though he was in Berlin in 1729, so he could just have met Katte), and as we've seen, Wilhelmine must have been a significant part of "elsewhere."
ETA: Though not cited for the passage I mentioned, Pöllnitz is mentioned once in the main text of Acton and is in the bibliography, so he's definitely one of the sources Acton is drawing on.
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-13 04:28 am (UTC)GG: But it is the age of monarchs forcing visitors to drink! Have a dram. I'll have one too. Have another dram. Have a third dram! I'll match you drink for drink.
Pöllnitz: Mercy, mercy! [Literally: "I was just going to fall at his Knees, and to beg Quarter, when, as good Luck would have it, Joannino [sic!] his favourite Valet de Chambre came in, and whisper'd something in his Ear."]
Hee. That is something else.
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-13 11:54 am (UTC)But it is the age of monarchs forcing visitors to drink!
Seriously! What is it with that. But, you know, since Pöllnitz occasionally attended the Tobacco Parliament (or maybe only in the later 30s?), he really should have been used to that.
Mildred: Hey, that might explain Knobelsdorff getting in as well!
Possibly. He says all foreigners had an easier time than the locals, but who knows, maybe being German helped him as well. I feel like he wasn't exactly the right temperament for GG, though, and he sure didn't seem prone to embellishments.
And I see that you got an English version of the memoirs. I actually had a look at a German version quite some time ago, but gave up after a couple of pages, because damn, that was work and I was lacking context. Seems like the translation is somewhat easier.
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-15 12:22 pm (UTC)Ha, in hindsight, I was thinking it shouldn't have been--what is Pöllnitz known for, after all, if not traveling and accruing stories?
But, you know, since Pöllnitz occasionally attended the Tobacco Parliament (or maybe only in the later 30s?), he really should have been used to that.
My thoughts exactly!
I feel like he wasn't exactly the right temperament for GG, though
Myeah, no, does not seem like it. I'll believe Pöllnitz was more his type. Also, when Knobelsdorff was there, GG was dying, so may have been miserable enough that no good stories were going to happen.
And I see that you got an English version of the memoirs. I actually had a look at a German version quite some time ago, but gave up after a couple of pages, because damn, that was work and I was lacking context. Seems like the translation is somewhat easier.
I mean, even with the English version, which I found a couple years ago, I looked at it and had no context for who any of these people were, so I set it down again. Then I ran into it again this week, and did some skimming, and was like, "Hey, I know who this person is, and also this one, and also this one--I should check these out again!"
We'll see if I end up with the time, but they're back on my radar now.
Wilhelmine was similiar, in that I did read v. 1 of her memoirs at the beginning of salon because I obviously knew who her immediate family were, but the reread a year later took me from "Manteuffel who?" to "Oh, Manteuffel the silver fox!" :P
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-16 04:24 am (UTC)Oh HUH, maybe I should pick these up again! Although I feel like I will still be confused with all the "my sister" and "the hereditary Prince" and so on...
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-17 06:56 pm (UTC)Volume 1 definitely improves on rereading! Especially now that Selena has told us about the bonkers Clement episode. I'm looking forward to rereading in French so I can pick up on even more things than I did when I read it in German.
Volume 2 is boring no matter what. :P Read the beginning and end (at least through Christmas 1732) and let the middle go.
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-18 05:08 am (UTC)Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-13 03:56 pm (UTC)LOL. Briefly browsing through the volumes, I can see Pöllnitz' general tendency when writing about the courts he visited is to do so with a policy of "I want to be invited there again and not piss off the ruling monarch". I mean, if you write that "all of Saxony" applauded A3 appointing Sulkowski & Brühl, you're clearly not going for Watergate type of reporting. Though some of his compliments can be, if one squints interpreted as maaaaaybe tongue in cheek, as when he says SD inherited all of her father G1's wonderful qualities that made him so universally beloved. Ahem.
This said, he might have been censored by his British translator and/or editor, given the prefaces which do a bit of moralizing, as in: "es, it can't be denied Pöllnitz was a Catholic when writing these volumes! But he wasn't as stupid and evil and superstitious and intriguing as Catholics generally are, he's since seen the light as FW offered him a job, and now is a proper enlightened Protestant!" Or, where Pöllnitz sounds sympathetic about Countess Cosel being currently locked up with nothing else to do but to ponder the change of her fortunes, the waspish editor/translator adds a footnote saying she only has herself to blame for her fate, it was self defense on August's part! Also "we have received news" that she was released. (Fake news, clearly.)
Of interest to us: Pöllnitz writes admiringly about the Countess Orzelska that he only saw her in "Amazonian" wardrobe, i.e. dressed as a man, and that she makes an extremely dashing, handsome guy. I was wondering where all the "Orzelska loved dressing up in male wardrobe" from more novelistic treatments of Fritz' youth hails from.
Also described as quite the looker: recently retired Manteuffel, PRIVATE citizen: He is pretty tall, well set, has a grand Air, and is one of the handsomest Men that I have seen .
His Behaviour is noble and easy , he has a good Fund of Learning, an extraordinary Memory , and
such a Happiness of expressing himself that when he talks he never fails to give Pleasure.
And Pöllnitz finally tells me how the Hoym who is Manteuffel's arch nemesis is related to the Hoym who was married to Cosel before August's eye fell on her - they were brothers. No time to read more for now, alas, But I'm glad, Mildred, you read and summarized the Gian Gastone encounter and pointed us towards the volumes!
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-15 05:07 am (UTC)I mean, this is the kind of gossipy sensationalism "hot or not?" crossdressing I come to salon for! :D
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-15 05:50 pm (UTC)The Countess of Orzelka, who was born at Warsaw , of one Renard a French Woman, and bred up in the Roman Catholic Faith : She is of a good Stature, and very charming. Of all the late King's legitimated Children his Majesty seem 'd to be fond est of this. She was at first very much neglected , and it did not appear that the King ever intended to
own her. But Count Rotofski seeing her at War saw in a Plight too mean for her Birth took the freedom to mention her to the King her Father , and told him that she merited some Kindness from him.
The King thereupon desir' d to see her, and she came into his Presence in the Amazonian Habit, which was her favourite Dress. The King thought she resembled him very much, and not being able to resist the tender Impressions of Nature he embrac'd her, and callid her his Daughter. At the same time he order'd the whole Court to acknownledge her in that Quality, gave her a magnificent Palace , with Diamonds without number, and settled great Pensions on her . ' Tis certain , in short, that never was Daughter more like her Father ; she had the same Features, Temper and Genius. It was impossible for her to be handsomer with a more grand Air , She is fond of Magnificence, Expence , and Pleasures, One of her Diversions is to dress in Mens Apparel. It was in this Habit that I saw her the first time, when she was on horseback , in a pur ple Habit embroider 'd with Silver , and wore the blue Ribband of Poland. Being all alone, I could not learn who she was, but really took her to be some young Foreign Nobleman whom I had not yet seen. I never beheld any body fit better than she did on horseback , or have a more amiable Air ; insomuch , that many Ladies Ladies would have been glad of a Lover so handsome. The same evening I saw her at the Ball, where she was still dress'd like a Man, only her Habit was more rich than it was in the morning, and her dishevelld Locks of Hair hung down in fine Curls about her Shoulders ; so that Cupid himself was not more tempting when he appear'd before Psyche. Her goed Mien , and the graceful Air with which I saw her dance a Minuet, made me inquire who this pretty Youth was ? Count Rotofski, who overheard me, made answer, The young Man whom you admire wou'd do you no great harm if you were a Woman, but may posibly hurt you as the Case stands ; but come along with me, continued he, taking me by the Hand, I will make him known to you , then leave you to come off with him as well as you can, I guess’d by these Words that the Person he was going to usher me to was the Countess Orzelska ; and I was confirmed in my Suspicion when I heard Count Rotofski say to her, "Sister , here is a Gentleman who has all due Respects for you, and whom I'll engage will be ready to serve you in whatever you shall require of him . Madamoiselle Orzelska smiling at this Discourse , I saluted her with all the Respect which I ow 'd to her Rank.
BTW, had another quick look, and Pöllnitz, who passed through Bayreuth before Wilhelmine got there, confirms that the Old Margrave for austerity reasons (his own father had been a big spender) really let the place go down. I've always wondered whether or not she exaggarated in her first impressions. Now, Pöllnitz loves splendor so he's hardly unbiased, but he does write this early description independent from her and he also describes it as a shabby hellhole. Wilhelmine and her own Margrave later got accused on spending far too much money on buildings, but, well, there was a certain need, it seems...
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-16 05:09 am (UTC)Count Rotofski, who overheard me, made answer, The young Man whom you admire wou'd do you no great harm if you were a Woman, but may posibly hurt you as the Case stands
heeeeee I love this!
The King thereupon desir' d to see her, and she came into his Presence in the Amazonian Habit, which was her favourite Dress. The King thought she resembled him very much, and not being able to resist the tender Impressions of Nature he embrac'd her, and callid her his Daughter.
This is giving me all kinds of hilarious feelings, first because of the Amazonian Habit leading to August the Strong being all "hey, you look a lot like me!" and second because I am totally laughing reading this given the rumor that they were also lovers. But anyway :D
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-16 08:37 am (UTC)Mind you, between this and "SD has inherited all of G1's wonderful qualities!" I'm sideeying Pöllnitz' propensity to consider "she's like her Dad!" as a compliment and losing hope it could be sarcasm in SD's case. Otoh, Orzelska being hot is treated as fact in other sources as well, and if she looked like a dashing young man in her "Amazonian habit" it certainly enhances the likelhood of her being young Fritz' first sexual experience!
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-18 04:53 am (UTC)Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-21 12:05 am (UTC)I'm now thinking of Formela, the dancer that Wilhelmine says was actually Fritz's first (iirc, he and Orzelska didn't consummate until her visit to Berlin), and Voltaire's comment that what Fritz liked about Barbarina was her muscular legs. Perhaps the same was true of Formela! #QuestioningGayBoy
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-20 11:17 am (UTC)The Orzelska passage was interesting on its own, but yes, this, too! I like it.
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-15 12:25 pm (UTC)Uhhh, I choose to believe that was tongue-in-cheek, because otherwise--WHAT??
he's since seen the light as FW offered him a job, and now is a proper enlightened Protestant!"
Of interest to us: Pöllnitz writes admiringly about the Countess Orzelska that he only saw her in "Amazonian" wardrobe, i.e. dressed as a man, and that she makes an extremely dashing, handsome guy. I was wondering where all the "Orzelska loved dressing up in male wardrobe" from more novelistic treatments of Fritz' youth hails from.
Oh, nice find! I knew I wanted to point you to these memoirs. :D
No time to read more for now, alas
Your loyal readers will hold you to the "for now"! :)
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-16 04:26 am (UTC)ahahaha oh right! And didn't the story go that he changed it again and Fritz was like "haha just kidding"?
I'd forgotten, thank you! despite just having read it not that long ago when rereading bits of Orieux for, well, never mind that now.
Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-17 06:45 pm (UTC)Re: Pöllnitz and Gian Gastone
Date: 2021-07-16 08:51 pm (UTC)So, funnily enough, after telling us that Other Seckendorff wrote that
Mantteuffel - le Diable - reports that Fritz after dinner after showing him 'all the tendernesses imaginable', took him into his room afterwards and there confided in him about this family,
...you asked:
So did he have sex with Mantteuffel, and do we count Mantteuffel among the boyfriends or the witty pretties?
To which my reaction was, "Not to be ageist, but he is 60 and Fritz is 24..."
But now that I know he was still quite a looker in the 1730s, I have adjusted my assessment of the odds. :P