This thread. I misremembered, it was Catt's diary, not a letter.
To summarize, he says that when forced to hunt, "j'arrêtais les chiens," which selenak translated as "I would slow down the dogs" (they were supposed to be running), and then he had to be careful not to step on them, because, "le Roi aurait crié."
Now, this is very, very speculative, but as you can see from that thread, I, as an inveterate dog lover, was immediately struck by Fritz the dog lover going, "I had to be careful not to step on the dogs, because the King would have yelled," not "because I like dogs and don't want to step on them." Which makes me think that if Ferdinand had accidentally hit one of Dad's dogs, Fritz would have shrugged it off in a way that he wouldn't have if you'd hit his precious Biche or whoever.
BUT.
Fritz is perfectly capable of going, "Well, *I* managed not to step on the dogs without even liking them, and if *I* can do it, you can do it," as many examples throughout his life show, *and* of holding people to standards other than his own ("Producing heirs, it's for everyone except me!"). So whether or not he ever stepped on a dog while hunting himself and the dog howled and he was extra careful after that, he might well have decided Ferdinand was the coming menace after accidentally hitting one of Dad's dogs! (Or one of the other ladies' lap dogs running around the place, even if he left his own favorites out of Dad's eye.)
In an undated letter to AW - Volz suggests it's from February 1739 - Fritz writes:
Give my regards to the sisters, the energetic Ulrike and the sanguineous Amalie. Don't forget the court fixture, the learned and chaste Montbail, my brother Narcissus, and my brother Boreas.
I knew the Narcissus quote of course (didn't realize that Heinrich was probably only thirteen at the time, though) but I'd never heard of the Boreas moniker for Ferdinand! So he's ... stormy?? Maybe he did manage to accidentally hurt someone/a dog, or to knock something over when visiting, or to make a mess of Fritz' papers, or... ?
LOL! I hadn‘t come across the Boreas moniker, either, but yes to all of the above - probably he managed to accidentally hurt a dog AND knock over Fritz‘ papers and books AND somehow indicate he would be an FW clone when grown up? (Which he wasn‘t, but between being the only one of the boys to really like hunting and - according to Morgenstern - being among the favored children in 1739 together with AW and Ulrike, I can see why Fritz could think he might be?)
Heinrich being My Brother Narcissus at 13 already sure is.... something. Start with the mirror imagery early, Fritz, why don‘t you?
This may be unfounded slander, but is it possible Ferdinand broke wind a lot? I have no evidence for this other than a MacDonogh comment, "Ferdinand, Frederick’s ten-year-old brother, the ‘trouser-trumpeter’, a boy of legendary incontinence." MacDonogh tends to draw on Pangels for his sibling hatred and is extremely unfair to them, so I have no idea whether this is supported by any actual sources. But I wanted to put it out there.
Boreas is also the *north* wind, so it could be a reference to some coldness perceived by Fritz, who is always happy to accuse others of coldness.
Narcissus: faint memory and I'm in a meeting so I can't check, but didn't Ziebura say that Heinrich was vain about his appearance in the pre-smallpox scar days? And this is definitely pre-smallpox. 13 is also the age at which it's common to start worrying about your appearance, so it would make sense.
Heinrich being My Brother Narcissus at 13 already sure is.... something. Start with the mirror imagery early, Fritz, why don‘t you?
Five-year-old Ferdinand as the worst of the Hohenzollerns is also something. He's five, Fritz!
This may be unfounded slander, but is it possible Ferdinand broke wind a lot?
Would be as good an explanation for the "Boreas" nickname as any. I don't recall it from Pangels, but then I only skimmed the Ferdinand chapter, and what I do recall is her complaining about Ferdinand getting all his opinions from Heinrich and being totally ungrateful towards Fritz. Bielfeld doesn't mention it in the letters about becoming Ferdinand's teacher in 1740, but then Bielfeld wouldn't. We should get our hands on Dechamps' memoirs anyway; he might mention it, being angry at Fritz & Co.
Boreas is also the *north* wind, so it could be a reference to some coldness perceived by Fritz, who is always happy to accuse others of coldness.
But Ferdinand has always shown him friendship!
didn't Ziebura say that Heinrich was vain about his appearance in the pre-smallpox scar days?
I just checked, and as far as I can see, she mentions it once, when describing the effects of the smallpox itself, i.e. saying that smallpox the scars left in his face "were a blow to the vain boy". This is some years after Fritz is writing the letter, which doesn't mean Heinrich couldn't have been vain before, and you're right, 13 is a classic time for starting to pay attention to how you look. Btw, if you're right about the reason for "Boreas", that means both monikers Fritz hands out to his younger brothers are decidedly on the sharp tongued side, as opposed to how he describes Ulrike and Amalie. I also recall that when he writes to Heinrich from the first Silesian war a very early letter, he says to give his love to "Wilhelm the Tall", which again is complimentary. So we have another bit of evidence that in the 1730s and 1740s, Heinrich (and Ferdinand at least in the 1730s) were the least favourite siblings.
I really don't know, I'm just throwing speculations out there. Maybe Ferdinand was just a hyperactive six-year-old running around knocking things over like a normal six-year-old! And maybe Heinrich was acting like a normal thirteen-year-old hitting puberty and looking in the mirror a lot.
We should get our hands on Dechamps' memoirs anyway; he might mention it, being angry at Fritz & Co.
Have added it to my to-find list, if felis doesn't beat me to it. :)
So what about this "sanguineous Amalie" thing? Does that mean "bloodthirsty" or more like "sanguine"? (And yes, I know about the humours :) ) Neither of those really seems to fit Amalie...?
...I didn't realize that Fritz was talking about his Brother Narcissus that far back!
Given Amalie supposedly was something of tomboy as a girl, who knows, she might have gotten into a physical fight with Ulrike (over piano practicing?), or with one of the boys, and the meaning is "blood thirsty" because of that. Or Fritz means it the traditional four humours way and sees her as a quick tempered optimist. Keep in mind he basically only sees the younger sibs during the winter holidays at this point, and his impressions of them are bound to be superficial anyway.
It's "sanguinisch" in German and I can't look up the original French because the letter is not at Trier, but I've never heard that German word used for bloodthirsty before? So I'd lean towards the humours meaning.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Birthday cheeses
Date: 2021-03-28 08:17 pm (UTC)Oh, this is new to me, what's that letter?
Dogs
Date: 2021-03-28 10:41 pm (UTC)To summarize, he says that when forced to hunt, "j'arrêtais les chiens," which
Now, this is very, very speculative, but as you can see from that thread, I, as an inveterate dog lover, was immediately struck by Fritz the dog lover going, "I had to be careful not to step on the dogs, because the King would have yelled," not "because I like dogs and don't want to step on them." Which makes me think that if Ferdinand had accidentally hit one of Dad's dogs, Fritz would have shrugged it off in a way that he wouldn't have if you'd hit his precious Biche or whoever.
BUT.
Fritz is perfectly capable of going, "Well, *I* managed not to step on the dogs without even liking them, and if *I* can do it, you can do it," as many examples throughout his life show, *and* of holding people to standards other than his own ("Producing heirs, it's for everyone except me!"). So whether or not he ever stepped on a dog while hunting himself and the dog howled and he was extra careful after that, he might well have decided Ferdinand was the coming menace after accidentally hitting one of Dad's dogs! (Or one of the other ladies' lap dogs running around the place, even if he left his own favorites out of Dad's eye.)
Ferdinand the Coming Menace
Date: 2021-03-30 02:26 pm (UTC)Give my regards to the sisters, the energetic Ulrike and the sanguineous Amalie. Don't forget the court fixture, the learned and chaste Montbail, my brother Narcissus, and my brother Boreas.
I knew the Narcissus quote of course (didn't realize that Heinrich was probably only thirteen at the time, though) but I'd never heard of the Boreas moniker for Ferdinand! So he's ... stormy?? Maybe he did manage to accidentally hurt someone/a dog, or to knock something over when visiting, or to make a mess of Fritz' papers, or... ?
Re: Ferdinand the Coming Menace
Date: 2021-03-30 02:37 pm (UTC)Heinrich being My Brother Narcissus at 13 already sure is.... something. Start with the mirror imagery early, Fritz, why don‘t you?
Re: Ferdinand the Coming Menace
Date: 2021-03-30 04:13 pm (UTC)Boreas is also the *north* wind, so it could be a reference to some coldness perceived by Fritz, who is always happy to accuse others of coldness.
Narcissus: faint memory and I'm in a meeting so I can't check, but didn't Ziebura say that Heinrich was vain about his appearance in the pre-smallpox scar days? And this is definitely pre-smallpox. 13 is also the age at which it's common to start worrying about your appearance, so it would make sense.
Heinrich being My Brother Narcissus at 13 already sure is.... something. Start with the mirror imagery early, Fritz, why don‘t you?
Five-year-old Ferdinand as the worst of the Hohenzollerns is also something. He's five, Fritz!
Re: Ferdinand the Coming Menace
Date: 2021-03-31 01:09 pm (UTC)Would be as good an explanation for the "Boreas" nickname as any. I don't recall it from Pangels, but then I only skimmed the Ferdinand chapter, and what I do recall is her complaining about Ferdinand getting all his opinions from Heinrich and being totally ungrateful towards Fritz. Bielfeld doesn't mention it in the letters about becoming Ferdinand's teacher in 1740, but then Bielfeld wouldn't. We should get our hands on Dechamps' memoirs anyway; he might mention it, being angry at Fritz & Co.
Boreas is also the *north* wind, so it could be a reference to some coldness perceived by Fritz, who is always happy to accuse others of coldness.
But Ferdinand has always shown him friendship!
didn't Ziebura say that Heinrich was vain about his appearance in the pre-smallpox scar days?
I just checked, and as far as I can see, she mentions it once, when describing the effects of the smallpox itself, i.e. saying that smallpox the scars left in his face "were a blow to the vain boy". This is some years after Fritz is writing the letter, which doesn't mean Heinrich couldn't have been vain before, and you're right, 13 is a classic time for starting to pay attention to how you look. Btw, if you're right about the reason for "Boreas", that means both monikers Fritz hands out to his younger brothers are decidedly on the sharp tongued side, as opposed to how he describes Ulrike and Amalie. I also recall that when he writes to Heinrich from the first Silesian war a very early letter, he says to give his love to "Wilhelm the Tall", which again is complimentary. So we have another bit of evidence that in the 1730s and 1740s, Heinrich (and Ferdinand at least in the 1730s) were the least favourite siblings.
But Ferdinand has always shown him friendship!
Re: Ferdinand the Coming Menace
Date: 2021-03-31 01:23 pm (UTC):D
I really don't know, I'm just throwing speculations out there. Maybe Ferdinand was just a hyperactive six-year-old running around knocking things over like a normal six-year-old! And maybe Heinrich was acting like a normal thirteen-year-old hitting puberty and looking in the mirror a lot.
We should get our hands on Dechamps' memoirs anyway; he might mention it, being angry at Fritz & Co.
Have added it to my to-find list, if
Re: Ferdinand the Coming Menace
Date: 2021-04-01 04:20 am (UTC)...okay, I totally laughed :D
Re: Ferdinand the Coming Menace (and Amalie?)
Date: 2021-04-01 04:19 am (UTC)...I didn't realize that Fritz was talking about his Brother Narcissus that far back!
Re: Ferdinand the Coming Menace (and Amalie?)
Date: 2021-04-01 08:16 am (UTC)Re: Ferdinand the Coming Menace (and Amalie?)
Date: 2021-04-01 01:08 pm (UTC)