Thank you for bracing the bad printing quality and extracting this feud! Very entertaining.
why FS was at Fritz' engagement party later, gloating over his defeated rival for MT's love and hand
Aw, poor FS, victim of Z's pet theory.
So, Nicolai on the gay question is basically: we all know it, but there's really no need to talk about it, so I certainly won't?
Zimmermann's legacy: causing multiple people to give signed testimonies on the state of Fritz' penis. I mean. Congrats? :P
Well, says Nicolai, it's all that bastard Voltaire's fault, because he was the one who started the story of the botched operation in his slanderous writings, which everyone had read, so these guys were curious and had a look.
Naturally. Who wouldn't have? I am amused. And of course it's Voltaire's fault in the end.
And Z, you're again not being a gentleman towards a lady by putting into print Barbarina's old scandals, because Barbarina? Still alive, and wonderful highly respected old lady who has funded a woman's shelter in silesia with her fortune, so there.
Did she? If so, good for her!
Nicolai's research into the not-actually-lady-in-waiting is really interesting, as is his comment on the quote doctoring.
By the way, via Volz' footnotes I found another Zimmermann refutation by the second chamber husar called Neumann (can be found here, written 1789), who is a lot less scientific about it and basically all about how Zimmermann was an arrogant and self-important person, who talked too much instead of doing his job, made up lies, was in it for the money, and fawned over Schöning (who was the second! chamber husar, he, Neumann, was the first!) while totally ignoring other people (read: Neumann), who might have known a few things, too. Also, that guy Schöning? Totally sucked up to FWII and that's why he got made Geheimer Kriegsrath. Neumann only serves one sun at a time, thank you very much, no rising sun for him. Oh, and that Büsching guy got ahead of himself, too. And he, Neumann, has half a mind to duel himself with all those other people who have been publishing insulting lies about the great king since his death. He also says the dog death during the Silesia revue was actually in 1784 and daily messages are a lie and while the King absolutely did get a message about the dog's death, it totally was his right as a king, so there! (He is trying to defend Fritz from a perceived "valued dogs more than people" slight in this passage. Indiscriminately defensive? Why would you ever think that?)
Zimmermann is a shipper! Shippers know no mercy with the canon love interest! He also says in "Fragments" that the only thing the FS/MT marriage ever produced was Joseph, and she should have married Fritz, dammit! (The idea of gloating Franzl at the engagement party still makes me chortle.)
Zimmermann's legacy: causing multiple people to give signed testimonies on the state of Fritz' penis. I mean. Congrats? :P
It's one way to achieve immortality, to be sure. And hey - other monarchs didn't get signed testimonies on the state of their penis, and after their death, too! Here, too, he is der Einzige.
And of course it's Voltaire's fault in the end.
One thing the feuding publishing Fritz fans always agree on: Voltaire was an ungrateful son of a bitch who broke their guy's heart and is to blame for his bad reputation ever since.
(A late carrier on of this tradition is Charlotte Pangels with her 1970s book on Fritz' siblings, which features completely straight Fritz, because she says Voltaire's totally unfounded slander is the only "proof" ever that Fritz had a non-straight thought in his life, and other than Voltaire no one believed it of him while Fritz was alive, either, so there. A few chapters later, we get to here about completely straight Heinrich and his heterosexual affairs, too.)
Barbarina: well, sort of. To quote German wiki: Nicht lange danach errichtete die nunmehrige Gräfin ein Stift zum Unterhalt 18 adeliger lediger Damen und einer Supriorin. Diese mussten aus dem schlesischen Adel stammen; zudem musste eine Hälfte der evangelischen, die andere Hälfte der katholischen Religion angehören. Barberina, die inzwischen 68 Jahre alt geworden war, hielt ein Jahrzehnt strengste Ordnung unter ihren Stiftsdamen, bis sie 1799 urplötzlich auf ihrem Gut in Barschau an einem Herzschlag verstarb. Die von ihr gegründete Stiftung für arme adelige Fräulein bestand noch mehr als 100 Jahre bis zum Ersten Weltkrieg.
ZOMG Neumann, what a find! Congrats. This is priceless. A true gem. And ah, job rivalries never change.
By the way, via Volz' footnotes I found another Zimmermann refutation by the second chamber husar called Neumann (can be found here, written 1789)
OMGGGGG, that's awesome! Brilliant find! This is so great. I am snacking hard on my metaphorical popcorn as I watch this 1790s literary feud unfold. :D
Zimmermann's legacy: causing multiple people to give signed testimonies on the state of Fritz' penis. I mean. Congrats? :P
(A small part of) Voltaire's legacy: making them look. Zimmermann's legacy: making them sign off on what they saw.
I'm dying. :'D
He also says the dog death during the Silesia revue was actually in 1784
Omg, of course we can't agree on the date. *headdesk*
I gather that STILL no one cares what happened to the dogs after Fritz died?
Indiscriminately defensive? Why would you ever think that?
Having read the article felis linked, including the footnotes, I see we have a first name for Neumann - Gottfried - but still none for Schöning. According to Neumann, their respective duties were:
Schöning: SECOND chamber hussar OMG SECOND: shaving Fritz, giving Fritz his medications, taking care of Fritz' enemas, otherwise "just like every other servant"'s duties, whereas
Neumann: FIRST chamber hussar: waking Fritz in the morning, dressing him (?? - maybe once he was ill?), creating Fritz' tail, selecting a wig, handing both coffee and water to Fritz, bring any and each letters addressed to the King to him, as well as execute any orders of the day Fritz may give.
According to yet another foonote, Neumann was born in 1752 in one of the 17 villages Peterdorf, Silesia, started his work for Fritz as a runner in 1772, ended up as First Chamber Husar and adminstrator of the royal private purse (Privatschatulle des Königs) until Fritz' death. Neumann himself died as chief of police (Polizei-Direktor) in Liegnitz on June 24th 1799.
Now, aside of Zimmermann getting wrong who was outranking whom, all this doesn't contradict the previous info; felis said the Schatulle accounts list Schöning for shaving and medication espenses, especially leeches, and even Zimmermann quoting the courtier to the effect that Schöning was currently Fritz' only doctor (due to the firing of the others) fits. Note that Schöning himself in his own account doesn't say anything about himself at all. His account is strictly about Fritz and doesn't include "the King and I" stories. But what I find telling in retrospect is the passage about Fritz being the kinder to the servants who nursed him (i.e., it appears, Schöning himself) the worse off he was, and that you could always tell he got better when he started being rude again, also that Fritz in his last years generally mellowed a bit towards the staff and "made little presents after illnesses to those who nursed him".
Something else that struck me is this: in his own account, Schöning doesn't mention Glasow, Völker or for that matter, Desen. He limits himself to the "sometimes, the King gave a lot of money to unworthy people, and no, I won't be talking about the motivation for this here" observation. Büsching, otoh, in his recounting of the Desen story (ending in suicide) gives Schöning as a source; I translated Büsching's version for you back in the day, and it's listed for contrast in the Georgii entry at Rheinsberg. Note it ends with Fritz just commenting he hadn't thought Desen had it (the shooting himself) in him. Zimmermann, who hears about Desen, can't resist improving on this because he's all about how misunderstood Fritz was really loving at heart, and says that Fritz was really sorry once the guy had shot himself and said maybe he shouldn't have been so harsh. Neumann, apparantly feeling the need to defend Fritz from this, too, which tells you something about Neumann, says NO HE DID NOT, he couldn't have cared less about Desen by then, he just said he hadn't thought Desen would have the courage.
Yeah, Schöning really was the closest thing to a nurse Fritz had during his last years it seems.
dressing him (?? - maybe once he was ill?)
Might also have been the general handling of Fritz' clothes? In the "several hours in pouring rain during the Silesia revue" passage, he is quite indignant, saying that, despite what some people write about the King's wardrobe, it's not like he had to sit at the table in wet clothes, there were more than enough clothes for him to get undressed and dressed again.
Neumann, apparantly feeling the need to defend Fritz from this, too, which tells you something about Neumann
Right? It's quite interesting what he feels the need to defend/nitpick. Also, no patience at all for literary exaggeration -
Zimmermann: driving up the hill towards Sanssouci, I prayed most fervently, probably nobody else ever prayed as fervently as I did on this hill. Neumann: Self-important bullshit, I'd say there were lots of invalids who prayed there way more devoutly than Zimmermann did.
(By the way, a look at the Schatullrechnungen tells me that Neumann, like Schöning, did apparently hand out money to poor people occasionally, and especially invalids in his case, so he does have a reason for saying this. Other recurring expenses in his list are Spanish tobacco for Fritz and postal charges.)
Oh, and Mildred: No, of course no mention of the dogs' fate.
Librarian report: I forgot to mention that I put the volume containing Neumann's refutation in the library last night, under "Journals". And I've now moved Zimmermann over to the anecdote collections section for ease of finding. Sorry for all the shuffling around lately, but we've been turning up a lot of good sources!
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Nicolai vs Zimmermann: En garde!
Date: 2021-03-03 04:19 pm (UTC)why FS was at Fritz' engagement party later, gloating over his defeated rival for MT's love and hand
Aw, poor FS, victim of Z's pet theory.
So, Nicolai on the gay question is basically: we all know it, but there's really no need to talk about it, so I certainly won't?
Zimmermann's legacy: causing multiple people to give signed testimonies on the state of Fritz' penis. I mean. Congrats? :P
Well, says Nicolai, it's all that bastard Voltaire's fault, because he was the one who started the story of the botched operation in his slanderous writings, which everyone had read, so these guys were curious and had a look.
Naturally. Who wouldn't have? I am amused. And of course it's Voltaire's fault in the end.
And Z, you're again not being a gentleman towards a lady by putting into print Barbarina's old scandals, because Barbarina? Still alive, and wonderful highly respected old lady who has funded a woman's shelter in silesia with her fortune, so there.
Did she? If so, good for her!
Nicolai's research into the not-actually-lady-in-waiting is really interesting, as is his comment on the quote doctoring.
By the way, via Volz' footnotes I found another Zimmermann refutation by the second chamber husar called Neumann (can be found here, written 1789), who is a lot less scientific about it and basically all about how Zimmermann was an arrogant and self-important person, who talked too much instead of doing his job, made up lies, was in it for the money, and fawned over Schöning (who was the second! chamber husar, he, Neumann, was the first!) while totally ignoring other people (read: Neumann), who might have known a few things, too.
Also, that guy Schöning? Totally sucked up to FWII and that's why he got made Geheimer Kriegsrath. Neumann only serves one sun at a time, thank you very much, no rising sun for him. Oh, and that Büsching guy got ahead of himself, too. And he, Neumann, has half a mind to duel himself with all those other people who have been publishing insulting lies about the great king since his death. He also says the dog death during the Silesia revue was actually in 1784 and daily messages are a lie and while the King absolutely did get a message about the dog's death, it totally was his right as a king, so there! (He is trying to defend Fritz from a perceived "valued dogs more than people" slight in this passage. Indiscriminately defensive? Why would you ever think that?)
Re: Nicolai vs Zimmermann: En garde!
Date: 2021-03-03 05:01 pm (UTC)Zimmermann is a shipper! Shippers know no mercy with the canon love interest! He also says in "Fragments" that the only thing the FS/MT marriage ever produced was Joseph, and she should have married Fritz, dammit! (The idea of gloating Franzl at the engagement party still makes me chortle.)
Zimmermann's legacy: causing multiple people to give signed testimonies on the state of Fritz' penis. I mean. Congrats? :P
It's one way to achieve immortality, to be sure. And hey - other monarchs didn't get signed testimonies on the state of their penis, and after their death, too! Here, too, he is der Einzige.
And of course it's Voltaire's fault in the end.
One thing the feuding publishing Fritz fans always agree on: Voltaire was an ungrateful son of a bitch who broke their guy's heart and is to blame for his bad reputation ever since.
(A late carrier on of this tradition is Charlotte Pangels with her 1970s book on Fritz' siblings, which features completely straight Fritz, because she says Voltaire's totally unfounded slander is the only "proof" ever that Fritz had a non-straight thought in his life, and other than Voltaire no one believed it of him while Fritz was alive, either, so there. A few chapters later, we get to here about completely straight Heinrich and his heterosexual affairs, too.)
Barbarina: well, sort of. To quote German wiki: Nicht lange danach errichtete die nunmehrige Gräfin ein Stift zum Unterhalt 18 adeliger lediger Damen und einer Supriorin. Diese mussten aus dem schlesischen Adel stammen; zudem musste eine Hälfte der evangelischen, die andere Hälfte der katholischen Religion angehören. Barberina, die inzwischen 68 Jahre alt geworden war, hielt ein Jahrzehnt strengste Ordnung unter ihren Stiftsdamen, bis sie 1799 urplötzlich auf ihrem Gut in Barschau an einem Herzschlag verstarb. Die von ihr gegründete Stiftung für arme adelige Fräulein bestand noch mehr als 100 Jahre bis zum Ersten Weltkrieg.
ZOMG Neumann, what a find! Congrats. This is priceless. A true gem. And ah, job rivalries never change.
Re: Nicolai vs Zimmermann: En garde!
Date: 2021-03-04 01:12 am (UTC)OMGGGGG, that's awesome! Brilliant find! This is so great. I am snacking hard on my metaphorical popcorn as I watch this 1790s literary feud unfold. :D
Zimmermann's legacy: causing multiple people to give signed testimonies on the state of Fritz' penis. I mean. Congrats? :P
(A small part of) Voltaire's legacy: making them look.
Zimmermann's legacy: making them sign off on what they saw.
I'm dying. :'D
He also says the dog death during the Silesia revue was actually in 1784
Omg, of course we can't agree on the date. *headdesk*
I gather that STILL no one cares what happened to the dogs after Fritz died?
Indiscriminately defensive? Why would you ever think that?
LOLOLOL, he sounds awesome.
FIRST and SECOND Chamber Hussars
Date: 2021-03-04 06:18 am (UTC)Schöning: SECOND chamber hussar OMG SECOND: shaving Fritz, giving Fritz his medications, taking care of Fritz' enemas, otherwise "just like every other servant"'s duties, whereas
Neumann: FIRST chamber hussar: waking Fritz in the morning, dressing him (?? - maybe once he was ill?), creating Fritz' tail, selecting a wig, handing both coffee and water to Fritz, bring any and each letters addressed to the King to him, as well as execute any orders of the day Fritz may give.
According to yet another foonote, Neumann was born in 1752 in one of the 17 villages Peterdorf, Silesia, started his work for Fritz as a runner in 1772, ended up as First Chamber Husar and adminstrator of the royal private purse (Privatschatulle des Königs) until Fritz' death. Neumann himself died as chief of police (Polizei-Direktor) in Liegnitz on June 24th 1799.
Now, aside of Zimmermann getting wrong who was outranking whom, all this doesn't contradict the previous info;
Something else that struck me is this: in his own account, Schöning doesn't mention Glasow, Völker or for that matter, Desen. He limits himself to the "sometimes, the King gave a lot of money to unworthy people, and no, I won't be talking about the motivation for this here" observation. Büsching, otoh, in his recounting of the Desen story (ending in suicide) gives Schöning as a source; I translated Büsching's version for you back in the day, and it's listed for contrast in the Georgii entry at Rheinsberg. Note it ends with Fritz just commenting he hadn't thought Desen had it (the shooting himself) in him. Zimmermann, who hears about Desen, can't resist improving on this because he's all about how misunderstood Fritz was really loving at heart, and says that Fritz was really sorry once the guy had shot himself and said maybe he shouldn't have been so harsh. Neumann, apparantly feeling the need to defend Fritz from this, too, which tells you something about Neumann, says NO HE DID NOT, he couldn't have cared less about Desen by then, he just said he hadn't thought Desen would have the courage.
Re: FIRST and SECOND Chamber Hussars
Date: 2021-03-04 12:33 pm (UTC)dressing him (?? - maybe once he was ill?)
Might also have been the general handling of Fritz' clothes? In the "several hours in pouring rain during the Silesia revue" passage, he is quite indignant, saying that, despite what some people write about the King's wardrobe, it's not like he had to sit at the table in wet clothes, there were more than enough clothes for him to get undressed and dressed again.
Neumann, apparantly feeling the need to defend Fritz from this, too, which tells you something about Neumann
Right? It's quite interesting what he feels the need to defend/nitpick. Also, no patience at all for literary exaggeration -
Zimmermann: driving up the hill towards Sanssouci, I prayed most fervently, probably nobody else ever prayed as fervently as I did on this hill.
Neumann: Self-important bullshit, I'd say there were lots of invalids who prayed there way more devoutly than Zimmermann did.
(By the way, a look at the Schatullrechnungen tells me that Neumann, like Schöning, did apparently hand out money to poor people occasionally, and especially invalids in his case, so he does have a reason for saying this. Other recurring expenses in his list are Spanish tobacco for Fritz and postal charges.)
Oh, and Mildred: No, of course no mention of the dogs' fate.
Re: Nicolai vs Zimmermann: En garde!
Date: 2021-03-04 02:42 pm (UTC)