if you treat the army as a deposit for people you want to punish, you're not making it look attractive and honorable
This is a good point, Fritz!
The irony is that Fritz, according to Schöning as well as everyone else, at this point of his life really truly loved the army and would not hear a bad word about it. Remember the explosion at Borcke (FW2's governor) for muttering some peace approving statements?
Ha, Catt! :P
LOL. Yes, it's very clear Catt was seeing what he wanted to see, if he didn't rewrite Fritz deliberately.
But yes, given what I'd read about Fritz dressing himself and not wanting to be seen in the nude (Fritz, you're just giving Zimmermann ideas!)
So he did. Fritz' freakish-for-his-time insistence of not letting the staff see him au naturell is Zimmerman's exhibit A) bit of evidence for his "must have had a broken/malformed penis" theory.
not like having your servants light the fire and wake you up, which is *everyone*, even "I dress myself and want privacy for relieving myself* weirdo Fritz
Minor nitpick: according to the biographies I read for my Yuletide story, Catherine did, in fact, like to light her fireplace herself in the morning. Though she did get woken up by her servants, six o'clock sharp every morning (via knocking), no matter the festivities in the night.
Poor, underappreciated F1.
Seriously though, why did Fritz have it in for Gramps? I mean, this is a consistent obsessive trait; Voltaire remarks on it in his letters 1750s letters, and as the statements he quotes from Fritz there are almost identical to what Schöning reports decades later, and Lucchesini, I'm assuming a "Reasons why Grandpa sucked!" rant was one of the regular events. And it's not like he had memories of the man himself, what with F1 dying while he was still a baby. I mean, sure, all the money spending offers enough room for critique, but you don't see Fritz having a go at, say, August the Strong for the same reason, when compared to August's money spending F1 was actually small scale. Still, just about the only time Fritz brings up Grandpa without ranting about how much he sucked is in the interrogation protocols when he points out the precedent of a Prince of Prussia leaving the country without royal permission (and FW heatedly replies that that was different because future F1 was afraid he'd get poisoned by his stepmother).
So, my current theories:
a) Projection theory I: Fritz was very aware FW was afraid Fritz would become F1 reborn, between their shared love for the arts, fashionable, comfortable clothing and fascination with all things French. He therefore blamed Grandpa for having caused a mindset in Dad for which he, Fritz, then paid the price. This of course he couldn't say, and thus he rants about what a sucky King F1 was instead.
b) Projection theory II: Fritz did see the similarities and did some more projecting. All those accusations of pride and vanity and wannabe Louis XIV are in fact self loathing.
c) Projection theory III: As Schöning (and Mitchell, and Catt) report, Fritz even when bringing up FW's temper and parenting was always careful to praise him more than to critique him, and to venerate him. After the letters to Wilhelmine from the 1730s, there is no more testified Fritz statement that's unmoderated hostility towards FW. Which doesn't mean those emotions were gone. But he can't vent them anymore. So he directs all the anger at his parents at Grandpa, who is a safe target since venerating him isn't necessary to uphold the Prussian mentality, on the contrary, you can use him as a bad example.
Fasting: My point here was that you don't eat chocolate while fasting. No meat, yes, and it's true that fish, cheese, milk etc. are all okay, but chocolate during lent is a no go. That's what you eat at Easter! (In egg form, these days though of course not then. *g*)
Minor nitpick: according to the biographies I read for my Yuletide story, Catherine did, in fact, like to light her fireplace herself in the morning. Though she did get woken up by her servants, six o'clock sharp every morning (via knocking), no matter the festivities in the night.
Fair! Now that you remind me of this, I do remember you telling us this. But 1) your corpse not being found until later in the morning/day because you didn't get up on your own is more of a modern phenomenon than one you'd expect from a monarch with servants, 2) I knew that Fritz specifically was woken up by his servants, so slight plot hole there that can only be handwaved by claiming that Glasow lied.
Seriously though, why did Fritz have it in for Gramps?
Current theory? That I came up with last night and was planning to share, then found that you had come up with several similar theories? ;) (Although not this precise one.)
My theory is that Fritz spent his entire childhood being told, and with everyone else being told, that because he liked the same things Grandpa liked, he would turn into the Worst King Ever. Then he turned out to be a king who likes the same things Grandpa liked! But because he also imprinted on Dad's values of 1) army, 2) money, 3) work, he feels very very defensive about spending money on palaces and artists and such, and has to make sure everyone knows that HE is not going to run HIS country into the ground, HE is the BEST KING EVER, and he proves this by agreeing that Gramps was THE WORST. "We are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT," he says. "See, Dad? Are you proud of me now? Well done, son? Maybe?"
But that doesn't mean there weren't also other elements. People often have more than one motive for whatever they're doing or thinking. I'm skeptical about your number 2, but 1 and 3 seem quite likely. I particularly like 3: frustrated venting that he can't express toward his father (Mixed feelings in this century? Not toward family you don't! Foreign intellectuals named Voltaire are fair game. :P) seems quite plausible.
Fasting: My point here was that you don't eat chocolate while fasting. No meat, yes, and it's true that fish, cheese, milk etc. are all okay, but chocolate during lent is a no go.
Really? I know that individuals who like chocolate often choose to give it up, in the same way some people give up television for Lent, but I wasn't aware that canon law had anything to say about chocolate, and I can't find any mention of it in my googling. Canon law (Catholic--other denominations are sometimes stricter) seems to define abstinence as abstaining from meat (seafood and other animal products okay), and fasting as not eating more than one meal and a couple snacks a day. Both in early modern and modern times. In the second half of the twentieth century, the Church reduced the number of days on which you're expected to abstain from meat during Lent (and allowed bishops to tweak the rules for their own flock), but I find no reference to chocolate before or after that change. It's an individual choice as far as I know.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Re: Schöning: Old Fritz: Not Your Dream Boss (Unless You're Dog)
Date: 2021-03-01 08:44 am (UTC)This is a good point, Fritz!
The irony is that Fritz, according to Schöning as well as everyone else, at this point of his life really truly loved the army and would not hear a bad word about it. Remember the explosion at Borcke (FW2's governor) for muttering some peace approving statements?
Ha, Catt! :P
LOL. Yes, it's very clear Catt was seeing what he wanted to see, if he didn't rewrite Fritz deliberately.
But yes, given what I'd read about Fritz dressing himself and not wanting to be seen in the nude (Fritz, you're just giving Zimmermann ideas!)
So he did. Fritz' freakish-for-his-time insistence of not letting the staff see him au naturell is Zimmerman's exhibit A) bit of evidence for his "must have had a broken/malformed penis" theory.
not like having your servants light the fire and wake you up, which is *everyone*, even "I dress myself and want privacy for relieving myself* weirdo Fritz
Minor nitpick: according to the biographies I read for my Yuletide story, Catherine did, in fact, like to light her fireplace herself in the morning. Though she did get woken up by her servants, six o'clock sharp every morning (via knocking), no matter the festivities in the night.
Poor, underappreciated F1.
Seriously though, why did Fritz have it in for Gramps? I mean, this is a consistent obsessive trait; Voltaire remarks on it in his letters 1750s letters, and as the statements he quotes from Fritz there are almost identical to what Schöning reports decades later, and Lucchesini, I'm assuming a "Reasons why Grandpa sucked!" rant was one of the regular events. And it's not like he had memories of the man himself, what with F1 dying while he was still a baby. I mean, sure, all the money spending offers enough room for critique, but you don't see Fritz having a go at, say, August the Strong for the same reason, when compared to August's money spending F1 was actually small scale. Still, just about the only time Fritz brings up Grandpa without ranting about how much he sucked is in the interrogation protocols when he points out the precedent of a Prince of Prussia leaving the country without royal permission (and FW heatedly replies that that was different because future F1 was afraid he'd get poisoned by his stepmother).
So, my current theories:
a) Projection theory I: Fritz was very aware FW was afraid Fritz would become F1 reborn, between their shared love for the arts, fashionable, comfortable clothing and fascination with all things French. He therefore blamed Grandpa for having caused a mindset in Dad for which he, Fritz, then paid the price. This of course he couldn't say, and thus he rants about what a sucky King F1 was instead.
b) Projection theory II: Fritz did see the similarities and did some more projecting. All those accusations of pride and vanity and wannabe Louis XIV are in fact self loathing.
c) Projection theory III: As Schöning (and Mitchell, and Catt) report, Fritz even when bringing up FW's temper and parenting was always careful to praise him more than to critique him, and to venerate him. After the letters to Wilhelmine from the 1730s, there is no more testified Fritz statement that's unmoderated hostility towards FW. Which doesn't mean those emotions were gone. But he can't vent them anymore. So he directs all the anger at his parents at Grandpa, who is a safe target since venerating him isn't necessary to uphold the Prussian mentality, on the contrary, you can use him as a bad example.
Fasting: My point here was that you don't eat chocolate while fasting. No meat, yes, and it's true that fish, cheese, milk etc. are all okay, but chocolate during lent is a no go. That's what you eat at Easter! (In egg form, these days though of course not then. *g*)
Re: Schöning: Old Fritz: Not Your Dream Boss (Unless You're Dog)
Date: 2021-03-01 09:16 pm (UTC)Fair! Now that you remind me of this, I do remember you telling us this. But 1) your corpse not being found until later in the morning/day because you didn't get up on your own is more of a modern phenomenon than one you'd expect from a monarch with servants, 2) I knew that Fritz specifically was woken up by his servants, so slight plot hole there that can only be handwaved by claiming that Glasow lied.
Seriously though, why did Fritz have it in for Gramps?
Current theory? That I came up with last night and was planning to share, then found that you had come up with several similar theories? ;) (Although not this precise one.)
My theory is that Fritz spent his entire childhood being told, and with everyone else being told, that because he liked the same things Grandpa liked, he would turn into the Worst King Ever. Then he turned out to be a king who likes the same things Grandpa liked! But because he also imprinted on Dad's values of 1) army, 2) money, 3) work, he feels very very defensive about spending money on palaces and artists and such, and has to make sure everyone knows that HE is not going to run HIS country into the ground, HE is the BEST KING EVER, and he proves this by agreeing that Gramps was THE WORST. "We are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT," he says. "See, Dad? Are you proud of me now? Well done, son? Maybe?"
But that doesn't mean there weren't also other elements. People often have more than one motive for whatever they're doing or thinking. I'm skeptical about your number 2, but 1 and 3 seem quite likely. I particularly like 3: frustrated venting that he can't express toward his father (Mixed feelings in this century? Not toward family you don't! Foreign intellectuals named Voltaire are fair game. :P) seems quite plausible.
Fasting: My point here was that you don't eat chocolate while fasting. No meat, yes, and it's true that fish, cheese, milk etc. are all okay, but chocolate during lent is a no go.
Really? I know that individuals who like chocolate often choose to give it up, in the same way some people give up television for Lent, but I wasn't aware that canon law had anything to say about chocolate, and I can't find any mention of it in my googling. Canon law (Catholic--other denominations are sometimes stricter) seems to define abstinence as abstaining from meat (seafood and other animal products okay), and fasting as not eating more than one meal and a couple snacks a day. Both in early modern and modern times. In the second half of the twentieth century, the Church reduced the number of days on which you're expected to abstain from meat during Lent (and allowed bishops to tweak the rules for their own flock), but I find no reference to chocolate before or after that change. It's an individual choice as far as I know.
But I'm open to counterevidence!