Ugh! Yeeeah, I feel like this is one of those things where okay, she behaved badly, but I just feel for her anyway :(
(BTW, Goethe rather naively thought he could do that and still remain friends with Charlotte von Stein. This did not work out as intended.)
What with this and the whole Charlotte Buff/Werther thing, I'm... getting the distinct impression that Goethe was a bit naive-in-a-self-centered-way sometimes :P
Those Gefundens are really neat. I think my favorite was the baritone one (and no, not just because baritone, although that probably helps) -- it's pretty cool to see someone do tonal art songs in the modern day :D Also I will go anywhere for the King Singers! And the ELena Kalacheva one was sweet too. I was glad to have the translation, that's rather sweet.
I was wondering whether Goethe just had a thing for people named Charlotte! But I guess it makes more sense that everyone was JUST NAMED Charlotte, like Friedrich and Heinrich :P :)
I'm... getting the distinct impression that Goethe was a bit naive-in-a-self-centered-way sometimes :P
To be sure. Mind you, he also was into polyamory per se, and life and works intermingled quite often. Just a few examples, this happened:
Younger Goethe: writes a drama "Stella" (subtitle: "A drama for lovers") where the love triangle (two women, one man) resolves itself by the three agreeing to live together in a happily ever after Readership: OMG YOU CAN'T! WHAT IMMORALITY IS THIS! Young Goethe: Fine. Have it your way. *writes a second ending to the drama where there's suicide* Happy now? 20th and 21st century theatre productions of "Stella": *pick the original ending*
Older Goethe: writes a novel "Wahlverwandtschaften" : married couple Eduard and Charlotte falls for alternate couple Ottilie and the Colonel. Misery ensues by Charlotte not being ready to follow her heart but insisting on obeying morality and the marriage vow, and eventualyl guilt tripping Ottilie into doing likewise, instead of everyone following their heart and living together. Tragic ending ensues, with ironic narrator evidently of the opinion this could have resolved far simpler, if only society wouldn't have brainwashed everyone*
Old Goethe, widower: *falls in love with 19 years old girl while taking the waters at Karlsbad, wants to marry her* Son August and daughter-in-law Ottilie: OMG terrible idea! 19 years old's mother, old friend of Goethe: This is awkward. Here I thought he was about to propose to me, a widow. 19 years old, Ulrike: Do not want. Otoh, actually do not want to be bearer of bad news and end up in literature, either. Everyone: what do do? Carl August: Never fear, Carl August is here. Being a true good friend, I'll give my old bud a reality check and braek the news gently to him. Hans, you can't. At your age! She's not into you that way. Goethe: I don't recall age stopping you with your current mistress, but fine. I can see you're right, she's not into me that way. Ah well! Off to write immortal poetry! Goethe: *writes the Marienbader Elegien which is about unrequited love, which for a change does stay unrequited, and about accepting your mortality* Ulrike: Phew. That's... actually now I don't mind having inspired that and will talk about my brief time with Goethe for the remainder of my 90 years plus unmarried life.
Younger Goethe: writes a drama "Stella" (subtitle: "A drama for lovers") where the love triangle (two women, one man) resolves itself by the three agreeing to live together in a happily ever after
Okay, that is pretty cool! Also, hee, and I fully support picking the original ending :D
Goethe: *writes the Marienbader Elegien which is about unrequited love, which for a change does stay unrequited, and about accepting your mortality*
...I was a bit worried about this story when I started reading it, but this is, well, rather endearing. If I were Ulrike I wouldn't have minded inspiring that either (although I also wouldn't have wanted to marry Old Goethe at 19!)
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timeasmymeasure
Re: objectivity and Goethe
Date: 2021-02-15 06:36 am (UTC)(BTW, Goethe rather naively thought he could do that and still remain friends with Charlotte von Stein. This did not work out as intended.)
What with this and the whole Charlotte Buff/Werther thing, I'm... getting the distinct impression that Goethe was a bit naive-in-a-self-centered-way sometimes :P
Those Gefundens are really neat. I think my favorite was the baritone one (and no, not just because baritone, although that probably helps) -- it's pretty cool to see someone do tonal art songs in the modern day :D Also I will go anywhere for the King Singers! And the ELena Kalacheva one was sweet too. I was glad to have the translation, that's rather sweet.
I was wondering whether Goethe just had a thing for people named Charlotte! But I guess it makes more sense that everyone was JUST NAMED Charlotte, like Friedrich and Heinrich :P :)
Re: objectivity and Goethe
Date: 2021-02-16 06:53 am (UTC)To be sure. Mind you, he also was into polyamory per se, and life and works intermingled quite often. Just a few examples, this happened:
Younger Goethe: writes a drama "Stella" (subtitle: "A drama for lovers") where the love triangle (two women, one man) resolves itself by the three agreeing to live together in a happily ever after
Readership: OMG YOU CAN'T! WHAT IMMORALITY IS THIS!
Young Goethe: Fine. Have it your way. *writes a second ending to the drama where there's suicide* Happy now?
20th and 21st century theatre productions of "Stella": *pick the original ending*
Older Goethe: writes a novel "Wahlverwandtschaften" : married couple Eduard and Charlotte falls for alternate couple Ottilie and the Colonel. Misery ensues by Charlotte not being ready to follow her heart but insisting on obeying morality and the marriage vow, and eventualyl guilt tripping Ottilie into doing likewise, instead of everyone following their heart and living together. Tragic ending ensues, with ironic narrator evidently of the opinion this could have resolved far simpler, if only society wouldn't have brainwashed everyone*
Old Goethe, widower: *falls in love with 19 years old girl while taking the waters at Karlsbad, wants to marry her*
Son August and daughter-in-law Ottilie: OMG terrible idea!
19 years old's mother, old friend of Goethe: This is awkward. Here I thought he was about to propose to me, a widow.
19 years old, Ulrike: Do not want. Otoh, actually do not want to be bearer of bad news and end up in literature, either.
Everyone: what do do?
Carl August: Never fear, Carl August is here. Being a true good friend, I'll give my old bud a reality check and braek the news gently to him. Hans, you can't. At your age! She's not into you that way.
Goethe: I don't recall age stopping you with your current mistress, but fine. I can see you're right, she's not into me that way. Ah well! Off to write immortal poetry!
Goethe: *writes the Marienbader Elegien which is about unrequited love, which for a change does stay unrequited, and about accepting your mortality*
Ulrike: Phew. That's... actually now I don't mind having inspired that and will talk about my brief time with Goethe for the remainder of my 90 years plus unmarried life.
Re: objectivity and Goethe
Date: 2021-02-20 06:10 pm (UTC)Okay, that is pretty cool! Also, hee, and I fully support picking the original ending :D
Goethe: *writes the Marienbader Elegien which is about unrequited love, which for a change does stay unrequited, and about accepting your mortality*
...I was a bit worried about this story when I started reading it, but this is, well, rather endearing. If I were Ulrike I wouldn't have minded inspiring that either (although I also wouldn't have wanted to marry Old Goethe at 19!)