Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 20
Oct. 19th, 2020 10:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahnYuletide signups so far:
3 requests for Frederician RPF, 2 offers
2 requests for Circle of Voltaire RPF, 3 offers !! :D :D
(I am so curious as to who the third person is!)
3 requests for Frederician RPF, 2 offers
2 requests for Circle of Voltaire RPF, 3 offers !! :D :D
(I am so curious as to who the third person is!)
Enlightened Souls
Date: 2020-10-20 08:11 am (UTC)Ruppin, 25. März 1736: "The circumstances of Diaphane or Diablotin have been ordered somewhat for the better, so he can dedicate himself more to philosophy now."
Secondly, trying to track down the poem Luise Gottsched wrote about and to Émiilie, I both was reminded again she was possibly the coolest female figure of the early German Enlightenment (she died in 1763, right after the 7 Years War had ended) and also that Orieux was right, if Émilie had come with Voltaire on his German trip in 1743, she'd have been enthusiastically welcomed. She had fans here! Not least because she was practically the only person who did not see Newton and Leipniz as an either/or and instead worked to unite the approach of both in her theories. No less a person than Christian Wolff said, after reading her "Institutions", that "it is as if I hear myself talk". (Which, okay, ego much, but still.) And he did want to meet her. (He did not want to meet Fritz.) The "Intitutions" made such an impression that Émilie became the first woman to be presented with "Die Münze der Minerva" (Luise Gottsched was the second). As for Luise Gottsched, or "die Gottschedin", as she's nicknamed to differentiate her from her husband, Gottsched the pusher-for-German-language, she was the first female German writer to write comedies and a tragedy, in addition to writing poetry. She translated, among otherworks, Voltaire's Alzire and Zaire as well as Émilie's letter exchange with Mairon (aka the one where Émilie pwned the "now listen, little woman, you don't understand science" Academy Secretary (which btw makes for a wonderful scene in Gundermann's drama about her), which Émilie had published in the next edition of the Institutions; the Gottschedin's German translation of Émilie's Mairon-pwning is here. And she also translated one of Madame de Graffigny's plays. Now because she really wrote a lot, I haven't been able to find more than a quote from the Émilie poem so far, but I did find the Ode to MT she wrote after having been received by her, which is lengthy and contains a passage that can be summarized thusly:
"XXX reason why you're cool, MT: you speak all the languages of the people you rule. Fluently. Including German, so when you meet your subjects, like myself, you can actually talk to them in their own language. Unlike some people who only can sneer."
The quote from the Gottschedin's poem to Émiilie which I did find already goes thusly: „Du, die Du jetzt den Ruhm des Vaterlandes stützest,
Frau, die Du ihm weit mehr als tausend Männer nütztest,
Erhabne Chatelet, o fahre ferner fort
Der Wahrheit nachzugehn.“
Ii.e. "On whom the fame of the fatherland rests now/ Woman who is of more use to it than a thousand men/ Noble Chatelet, oh, do continue/ To seek out truth!"
Now from these lines it's not apparant whether Luise Gottsched means by the Vaterland Émilie's patrie or her own country (perhaps because Émilie is rehabilitating Leipniz who gets attacked internationally now by Newtonians), which is one of many reasons why I want to read the complete poem, but under the assumption that she means France, let's see :
You who provides your country's claim to fame
More so than thousands of the men whom I could name,
Woman! Oh noble Chatelet, proceed
To seek the truth, wherever it may lead!
Re: Enlightened Souls
Date: 2020-10-21 01:11 am (UTC)Nice, thank you! Headcanon that in 1736 he became the envoy formerly known as Diablotin, as Fritz shifted to calling him Diaphane. ;) (For which readers of my fic know what my headcanon is.)
Now because she really wrote a lot, I haven't been able to find more than a quote from the Émilie poem so far
See Fritzian Library, Contemporary Documents, Gottsched_Chatelet_Zwo_Schriften.pdf. I agree it was not trivial to find! 11 tabs and 15 minutes later, here you go. :) (That's much more than usual, though nothing beats Peter Keith's eulogy--that one was crazy and only a fic would have made me put in that much effort.)
I didn't mean it as a request for you to find them for me! Just that whenever I'm like "I've never seen X," I know that it is just a matter of time before you find stuff for me :D
See,
Anyway, I look forward to further findings on the Gottsched/Châtelet front!
Re: Enlightened Souls
Date: 2020-10-21 06:29 am (UTC)Mairan: Madame Marquise,
though you somehow found yourself published on the topc of Force Vive, you rush to judgment like any woman confronted with ideas beyond her skill. My dear, you simply do not understand my mathematics, nor did you properly read my own writing as you misquote me throughout. I would be happy to guide you through my reasoning, if you would permit me at your little Leipniz academy in the fields. But as my equations prove there is no need to square force: Newton is right, Leipniz is wrong, and you, my dear, are out of your element. All you need to do, Madame, is to read, and reread, and perhaps you could bring us something worth our time.
Émilie: Monsieur,
I am sorry to play the mother to your wandering child, but it is, after all, the instinct of my sex to correct a failure in order to educate. ON the point of my misquoting your work. I have included a table listing exact references, so you can stop misquoting me. And I attached complete solutions to all aforementioned problems. I can walk you through the difficult bits. Force vive is the only theory that explains the Dutch experiments on velocity. so I suggest that you keep reading for you've obviously got some catching up to do. Yours humbly, la Marquise.
Now, Luise Gottsched:
Preface: Dear readers, you might wonder why I, who usually write and translate poetry and drama, am now branching out to science, and why you should care about a French academic quarrell. The reasons are obvious.
1.) Émilie du Chatelet rocks.
2.) The great Leipniz is our homeboy, and keeps constantly being denigrated by French Descartes fans who don't want to admit a German advanced beyond their guy, and use Newton as a strawman argument. Reading a Frenchwoman school these chauvinistic Frenchmen and defend our guy is immensely satisfying on every level.
3.) On that note, I am so, so, SO sick of being constantly patronized to by SOME PEOPLE both as a German and a woman. This Mairan sounds like a complete ass, see pages X, Y and Z of my translation. Schadenfreude is also a German word, assholes. Émilie provided me with a lot of it, and I wanted to share.
4.) She's absolutely right about the living force.
Dedicatory poem: Émilie du Châtelet, you rock my world! You have a mind that seeks out all the challenges. Forgive me for a lengthy aside owed to all the constant dissings from your countrymen and certain of their imitators in my part of the world. Firstly, It's stupid to judge scientists by where there are from, but let's be honest here, three quarters of the Leipniz bashing is because he's not French. Contrary to what we're constantly told, though, I don't think we Germans are inferior in thought, deeds or language, and you know what, French people, constantly bragging about your superiority from a hundred years ago just shows you're not so hot now. Ahem. Sorry, Émilie. It just occurs to me that you might be surprised a poem to you disses your countrymen. I don't mean like that! It's just, I have issues. We all do, due to all the - anyway. I think we can agree that it's not the national heritage that makes a scientist great or small but their own efforts. If you were from Germany, or if you founded your own nation in this wonderful sounding place Cirey, you could not be better or worse than you are by your own rights. France, on the other hand, can be grateful it has you, for you are worth more than a thousand of the men currently trumpeting their fame. Please, continue to seek out the truth, inspire the rest of us doing likewise by your courage, and accept your wonderful, clever words clothed in this German dress, yours fannishly, Luise Gottsched.
Re: Enlightened Souls
Date: 2020-10-24 12:01 am (UTC)Re: Enlightened Souls
Date: 2020-10-24 05:22 pm (UTC)I am sorry to play the mother to your wandering child, but it is, after all, the instinct of my sex to correct a failure in order to educate. ON the point of my misquoting your work. I have included a table listing exact references, so you can stop misquoting me. And I attached complete solutions to all aforementioned problems. I can walk you through the difficult bits. Force vive is the only theory that explains the Dutch experiments on velocity. so I suggest that you keep reading for you've obviously got some catching up to do. Yours humbly, la Marquise.
OK, I have to quote this whole thing because it's ALL SO AWESOME. Émilie: defining "pwn" centuries before it was a word :DDDD
you know what, French people, constantly bragging about your superiority from a hundred years ago just shows you're not so hot now. Ahem. Sorry, Émilie. It just occurs to me that you might be surprised a poem to you disses your countrymen. I don't mean like that! It's just, I have issues.
HAHAHAHA awwwww.
...now I kinda want a fandom AU where Gottsched is in Émilie fandom and Mairan is an anti :DD
Re: Enlightened Souls
Date: 2020-10-24 05:23 pm (UTC)Yeah, that's why right after I wrote "I've never seen a picture of Fritz smiling!" I was like... you know, that is just going to be like waving a flag in front of mildred's face that she will HAVE to find me all the pictures in existence of him smiling! And lo, so it came to pass :)
Re: Enlightened Souls
Date: 2020-10-23 05:05 am (UTC)HAHAHAHAHA who ever could she be referring to
"On whom the fame of the fatherland rests now/ Woman who is of more use to it than a thousand men/ Noble Chatelet, oh, do continue/ To seek out truth!"
I love this so much! Especially "Woman who is of more use to it than a thousand men," oooooh that's a burn.
And yet again I adore that you made the rhyme! <3