38 pages! I'm not caught up on comments, but I managed to get some reading done.
Beginning of chapter 7, AW has returned to Berlin and gone to Oranienburg.
So Ziebura says at the beginning of chapter 6 that Kaunitz even managed to convince MT to write a flattering letter to Madame de Pompadour. So she did write her directly, she just didn't call her "cousin" or "sister" or whatever Fritz's propaganda made it out to be? I want to make sure I have my facts straight.
I remain behind on comments, but I couldn't go to bed without asking that. ;)
No, she didn't write to her directly, Ziebura is just repeating old Prussian propaganda. Like Catt as the best source on Fritz ever, it's one of those things refuted already in the late 19th century which nonetheless keep showing up. In my experience, this usually happens when the author doesn't bother to read an MT or Madame de Pompadour biography, because not a single one I've read fails to point out that this isn't true.
Our good Prince of Prussia worked terribly in the Lord's vineyards during his stay here. Little Kraut, as the prettiest, won the lottery, Knesebeck a few times and Frau v. Brandt for the sake of [old times].
LOL omg Lehndorff! Ha. I'm glad that Ziebura gave some context, as I would not have figured that out just from the text.
* Fritz: always punish the officers so as to make "ein Exempel für die anderen."
Yeah, "pour encourager les autres" is not making me want you as my leader, Fritz.
Also Fritz: I am der einzige König, so there are keine anderen, so there's no point to punishing me, obviously. :P
Ooh, I just looked up "pour encourager les autres," and it hasn't been coined yet. Voltaire will coin it in Candide, published in 1759, with reference to the British executing one of their admirals for a lost battle in 1756. Huh. I didn't know that was Voltaire, and I didn't know it was inspired by the Seven Years' War.
The battle of Minorca, won by the French on May 20, 1756, per Wikipedia:
Byng displayed considerable caution and an over-reliance on standard fighting procedures, and several of his ships were seriously damaged, while no ships were lost by the French. Following a Council of War, at which all the senior officers present concurred, it was agreed the fleet stood no chance of further damaging the French ships or of relieving the garrison. Byng therefore gave orders to return to Gibraltar.
The Admiralty, perhaps concerned to divert attention from its own lack of preparation for the disastrous venture, charged him for breaching the Articles of War by failing to do all he could to fulfill his orders and support the garrison; he was court-martialled, found guilty and sentenced to death, and - despite pleas for clemency - executed on 14 March 1757 aboard HMS Monarch in Portsmouth harbour.
There may be 20 examples of executed generals under Fritz that I don't know of, but the only one I know of who was condemned by the court martial was given a last-minute reprieve. Much like Glasow.
* Wilhelmine writing to Fritz to exonerate AW: Only you, dear brother, are free from mistakes.
Because it's Wilhelmine, I honestly don't know how much sarcasm to read into that. (If it were Heinrich, then obviously 1000% sarcasm.) Clearly she's decided that's what he wants to hear so he can be forgiving of other people's mistakes, and as we all know, she's figured out that total submission is the only way to get anything from him, but, well, wow. No matter how mad I was at someone, if someone said that to me, I would take it as an attempted wake-up call to remind me that everyone, even me, makes mistakes...but I'm not an absolute monarch.
* Ziebura seems to think Heinrich and Ferdinand were wrong to encourage AW in holding out, "without considering how unhappy he felt about it."
Ugh. This was really a lose-lose situation.
* "Without envy, but with bitterness, Wilhelm watched his brother's star rise, while his own fell inexorably." Wow. :/
Google fail:
Ferdinand was not shot dead underneath his horse at the battle of Prague; his horse was shot dead underneath him. Ferdinand lived until 1813, the last surviving child of FW and SD.
Not Google's fault for once: the text has a typo. "Perhaps his solo data thanked him" should be "Perhaps his soldiers thanked him": Soldaten, not Soladaten.
The battle of Minorca, won by the French on May 20, 1756,
Marian Füssels points out that this one, not Lobowitz in Saxony, which hadn't been invaded yet, can get the credit for being the first official battle of the 7 Years War and kicking it off. But neither German historians - who were invested in Fritz being the decisive lone eagle who always acts, not reacts - nor British historians (invested in the imagine of a) Prussia starting it all, and b) England always coming out on top in the wars they very reluctanctly get involved in) usually admit this.
No matter how mad I was at someone, if someone said that to me, I would take it as an attempted wake-up call to remind me that everyone, even me, makes mistakes...but I'm not an absolute monarch.
I would, too, but given this is Wilhelmine in late 1757 writing to Fritz who already sounds somewhat suicidal, I really don't believe she used sarcasm on that occasion.
Ziebura seems to think Heinrich and Ferdinand were wrong to encourage AW in holding out, "without considering how unhappy he felt about it."
She does, and I'm mostly thinking they were wrong, too, but that's with hindsight and the knowledge of AW's death. If you, like Heinrich and Ferdinand, assume AW will survive to be King one day and has at least the security that Fritz can't change the succession without petitioning the Emperor to do so, and if you assume that even if AW submits, Fritz will just repeat this kind of behavior ad infinitum (with AW and others), then it looks differently. Like you said, it was a lose-lose situation.
neither German historians - who were invested in Fritz being the decisive lone eagle who always acts, not reacts - nor British historians (invested in the imagine of a) Prussia starting it all, and b) England always coming out on top in the wars they very reluctanctly get involved in) usually admit this.
I imagine the Austrians also want Fritz to have started it? Though I'm not conversant with Austrian historiography.
I would, too, but given this is Wilhelmine in late 1757 writing to Fritz who already sounds somewhat suicidal, I really don't believe she used sarcasm on that occasion.
Exactly, that's why I find it so hard to wrap my head around that sentence. I can't imagine writing or reading it with a straight face, but I can't imagine Wilhelmine using the kind of sarcasm on Fritz that would be the only possible way I could compose that sentence. I don't care how abject I was trying to be, I would find a different way of phrasing it. But I guess Wilhelmine thought that was what he needed to hear.
if you assume that even if AW submits, Fritz will just repeat this kind of behavior ad infinitum (with AW and others), then it looks differently. Like you said, it was a lose-lose situation.
Definitely. There are pros and cons to any approach, and major cons to all. :(
She does, and I'm mostly thinking they were wrong, too, but that's with hindsight and the knowledge of AW's death. If you, like Heinrich and Ferdinand, assume AW will survive to be King one day and has at least the security that Fritz can't change the succession without petitioning the Emperor to do so, and if you assume that even if AW submits, Fritz will just repeat this kind of behavior ad infinitum (with AW and others), then it looks differently. Like you said, it was a lose-lose situation.
Yeah. It's not at all clear to me that it looks like the wrong move at the time, it's all lose-lose :(
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timeasmymeasure
AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-07 12:55 am (UTC)Beginning of chapter 7, AW has returned to Berlin and gone to Oranienburg.
So Ziebura says at the beginning of chapter 6 that Kaunitz even managed to convince MT to write a flattering letter to Madame de Pompadour. So she did write her directly, she just didn't call her "cousin" or "sister" or whatever Fritz's propaganda made it out to be? I want to make sure I have my facts straight.
I remain behind on comments, but I couldn't go to bed without asking that. ;)
Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-07 06:52 am (UTC)Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-07 01:37 pm (UTC)Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-07 10:51 pm (UTC)LOL omg Lehndorff! Ha. I'm glad that Ziebura gave some context, as I would not have figured that out just from the text.
AW! :(
Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-07 11:05 pm (UTC)Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-07 10:54 pm (UTC)Yeah, "pour encourager les autres" is not making me want you as my leader, Fritz.
Also Fritz: I am der einzige König, so there are keine anderen, so there's no point to punishing me, obviously. :P
Ooh, I just looked up "pour encourager les autres," and it hasn't been coined yet. Voltaire will coin it in Candide, published in 1759, with reference to the British executing one of their admirals for a lost battle in 1756. Huh. I didn't know that was Voltaire, and I didn't know it was inspired by the Seven Years' War.
The battle of Minorca, won by the French on May 20, 1756, per Wikipedia:
Byng displayed considerable caution and an over-reliance on standard fighting procedures, and several of his ships were seriously damaged, while no ships were lost by the French. Following a Council of War, at which all the senior officers present concurred, it was agreed the fleet stood no chance of further damaging the French ships or of relieving the garrison. Byng therefore gave orders to return to Gibraltar.
The Admiralty, perhaps concerned to divert attention from its own lack of preparation for the disastrous venture, charged him for breaching the Articles of War by failing to do all he could to fulfill his orders and support the garrison; he was court-martialled, found guilty and sentenced to death, and - despite pleas for clemency - executed on 14 March 1757 aboard HMS Monarch in Portsmouth harbour.
There may be 20 examples of executed generals under Fritz that I don't know of, but the only one I know of who was condemned by the court martial was given a last-minute reprieve. Much like Glasow.
* Wilhelmine writing to Fritz to exonerate AW: Only you, dear brother, are free from mistakes.
Because it's Wilhelmine, I honestly don't know how much sarcasm to read into that. (If it were Heinrich, then obviously 1000% sarcasm.) Clearly she's decided that's what he wants to hear so he can be forgiving of other people's mistakes, and as we all know, she's figured out that total submission is the only way to get anything from him, but, well, wow. No matter how mad I was at someone, if someone said that to me, I would take it as an attempted wake-up call to remind me that everyone, even me, makes mistakes...but I'm not an absolute monarch.
* Ziebura seems to think Heinrich and Ferdinand were wrong to encourage AW in holding out, "without considering how unhappy he felt about it."
Ugh. This was really a lose-lose situation.
* "Without envy, but with bitterness, Wilhelm watched his brother's star rise, while his own fell inexorably." Wow. :/
Google fail:
Ferdinand was not shot dead underneath his horse at the battle of Prague; his horse was shot dead underneath him. Ferdinand lived until 1813, the last surviving child of FW and SD.
Not Google's fault for once: the text has a typo. "Perhaps his solo data thanked him" should be "Perhaps his soldiers thanked him": Soldaten, not Soladaten.
Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-08 08:52 am (UTC)Marian Füssels points out that this one, not Lobowitz in Saxony, which hadn't been invaded yet, can get the credit for being the first official battle of the 7 Years War and kicking it off. But neither German historians - who were invested in Fritz being the decisive lone eagle who always acts, not reacts - nor British historians (invested in the imagine of a) Prussia starting it all, and b) England always coming out on top in the wars they very reluctanctly get involved in) usually admit this.
No matter how mad I was at someone, if someone said that to me, I would take it as an attempted wake-up call to remind me that everyone, even me, makes mistakes...but I'm not an absolute monarch.
I would, too, but given this is Wilhelmine in late 1757 writing to Fritz who already sounds somewhat suicidal, I really don't believe she used sarcasm on that occasion.
Ziebura seems to think Heinrich and Ferdinand were wrong to encourage AW in holding out, "without considering how unhappy he felt about it."
She does, and I'm mostly thinking they were wrong, too, but that's with hindsight and the knowledge of AW's death. If you, like Heinrich and Ferdinand, assume AW will survive to be King one day and has at least the security that Fritz can't change the succession without petitioning the Emperor to do so, and if you assume that even if AW submits, Fritz will just repeat this kind of behavior ad infinitum (with AW and others), then it looks differently. Like you said, it was a lose-lose situation.
Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-08 09:20 pm (UTC)I imagine the Austrians also want Fritz to have started it? Though I'm not conversant with Austrian historiography.
I would, too, but given this is Wilhelmine in late 1757 writing to Fritz who already sounds somewhat suicidal, I really don't believe she used sarcasm on that occasion.
Exactly, that's why I find it so hard to wrap my head around that sentence. I can't imagine writing or reading it with a straight face, but I can't imagine Wilhelmine using the kind of sarcasm on Fritz that would be the only possible way I could compose that sentence. I don't care how abject I was trying to be, I would find a different way of phrasing it. But I guess Wilhelmine thought that was what he needed to hear.
if you assume that even if AW submits, Fritz will just repeat this kind of behavior ad infinitum (with AW and others), then it looks differently. Like you said, it was a lose-lose situation.
Definitely. There are pros and cons to any approach, and major cons to all. :(
Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-12 04:55 am (UTC)Yeah. It's not at all clear to me that it looks like the wrong move at the time, it's all lose-lose :(
Re: AW readthrough - Seven Years' War
Date: 2020-09-12 04:53 am (UTC)THIS.