Intellectually, I agree with you, but I tried Heimwärts yesterday, and my brain was like, "Noooo, I caaaan't! *sob*" However, I'm feeling a bit better today, so definitely yell at me if I don't do German. And thank you for yelling at me a little yesterday. :)
As for something easier for you, I started work on M Wie Melody yesterday, and went right up until one of my scripts errored out, and my brain refused to debug. (I logged 30 minutes at work yesterday, I swear. :() I will continue working on that this weekend, and hope to have that to you soon.
Also, after I finish AW, I'm doing some books you're not, so that should give you a chance to work on Voigt, and hopefully by then, my brain will be in a more cooperative state.
Small victory: I did my 20 pages. But my body has decided to hurt in new and exciting ways, so I won't be typing up my comments today.
Heinrich and AW are doing their roleplaying game.
M Wie Melody is in the last stage of processing, but it's going to be a while, because the German and the English have different paragraph breaks. So I'm going paragraph-by-paragraph through the two texts to make them match, so that they can then be interleaved (which I can do automatically once they match). I'm earning that half of the Lady Mary bio I didn't pay for. :)
It'll get done. I'll just keep chipping away at it. 20% done already, and that was after debugging my script earlier. Once the paragraph aligning is done, we're only 1 line of code away from interleaving, and then it's yours: original non-Googlified English, interleaved, just for you! :)
I feel like I don't want to take away your valuable fandom (computer) time and... okay, I guess it's probably not taking brain cycles you'd otherwise be using for German :P But really I feel like this is going far and above the book bribe!
If I weren't doing this, I wouldn't have asked for a book bribe! I wouldn't charge just for running scripts. And really, this is nothing compared to what I did for the Heinrich political correspondence, for which I also requested a bribe. ;)
But okay, how about this? I'm halfway through, so what if I send you three files: the German, the English, and an interleaved copy of the first half? That's a couple hundred pages and should give you plenty of German practice. Then if you get through that and you want the second half interleaved instead of in separate files, I'll run through and align the remaining paragraphs then.
Ziebura, or AW? We're about to finish AW, but it might be a while before we get through the remaining Ziebura books. Especially if we try to slow down Ziebura so that we're less overwhelmed by the amount of discussion happening.
Unless you feel like you're not ready for Melody until you do more Duolingo, I actually don't think it would be a bad idea if you did some Melody in conjunction with Wives, which you could read purely in English while practicing your German on something simpler.
So I wonder if Lehndorff would be easier to read syntax-wise? I haven't gone back and looked; I'm basing this on the fact that I can (with translation) sometimes muddle through the letters in Ziebura, even Fritz's, and I have pretty much completely given up on being able to read Ziebura's prose, even with accompanying translation, until I know a lot more German :)
Also, just so you know, the interleaved AW has a weird issue where the first 40% is the same as the second 40%! I think the second time it goes on to the end, though.
So I wonder if Lehndorff would be easier to read syntax-wise?
He might be? My concern there is that there might be a lot of players we don't know and want to look up or ask Selena about, so I wanted to put that off until my German was a little better. But I'm not wedded to doing it after Krackow and Oster. We could try doing it before and see how the syntax goes.
I'm starting to think I should read things I don't want to discuss in great detail alongside things I do, so that I keep up my German page count but don't accumulate vast numbers of things I need to discuss/research every day.
So if you're willing to start Wives as soon as we finish AW, I could read Sons alongside Wives (Sons being very short, of course), and then Wives would go more slowly. I might also start tackling Wilhelmine's memoirs in German, since they seem to be less or not at all bowdlerized in that edition, I could use the practice, and I do want to reread volume 1 and finish volume 2 now that I know a bunch of things I didn't over a year ago.
Also, just so you know, the interleaved AW has a weird issue where the first 40% is the same as the second 40%! I think the second time it goes on to the end, though.
Argh, I thought I had fixed that! Either I didn't save that change, or I sent you the wrong file. It should go on to the end the second time, though, yes.
That sounds good. I also want to read Wilhelmine's memoirs in English, so if you are able to do an interleaved of the German then I'd be very interested in that :) (Or just English, really, as we have already ascertained that Wilhelmine's German is too fancy for me at this point. Although every day I'm like "hey, I just did that word in Duolingo, I recognize it now!")
Hmm. Wilhelmine's paragraphs are pretty long, so it would either be completely useless to you interleaved (as I discovered Horowksi was), or I would have to manually insert arbitrary paragraph breaks and then run it through Google Translate, because I am *not* going to do paragraph alignment again. :P Also, the English copy I have of her memoirs is a terrible quality scan, which OCR would really struggle with.
I vote for you holding off on her memoirs until we do French, when you can deal with separate files. You have Voigt to practice your German on now, and you can read Wives and Lehndorff with me in English (and maybe some Lehndorff in German), and if I can talk you into it, Oster's Wilhelmine bio in English. Come oooonnnn, she's your fave, it's fic research, we'll talk about her together, it'll be great! ;)
Besides, we'll go slowly while we practice our German on texts we don't need to talk so much about.
Anyway, I'm 4-5 pages from the end of AW, so I've put the interleaved Wives text into the the library. I'll be reading Wives at the same time as Sons, and if I finish Sons first, then either Heimwärts or the Wilhelmine memoirs.
When we finish Wives, then we can discuss whether we want to do Lehndorff next, or whether I should do Oster and Krackow.
Ah, waiting for French makes much better sense! I still *might* like interleaved Google translate for the French memoirs, long paragraphs and all, but I would NOT expect paragraph alignment :) Or even arbitrary manual paragraph breaks. But I think the way I process is sufficiently different from yours that the interleaved is still helpful for me in cases where it's not for you.
Okay, but when the paragraphs are misaligned, text and translation get increasingly out of sync, until by the end of the book, you might get 20 consecutive German paragraphs that aren't interleaved at all, but just clumped together, because the total number of paragraphs is different.
So the "translation" of a paragraph later on in the book ends up completely unrelated to the text it's supposedly translating, and you have to hunt for the actual translation. This would ruin the point of an interleaved translation for me, but yes, I suppose that may not be a dealbreaker for you. For me, scanning three pages ahead or behind to try to find the translation would defeat the purpose; I'd rather just have separate files at that point.
Even when the paragraphs were in sync, Horowski's 2-3 page paragraphs had me flipping several phone/Kindle pages forward to find the translation, then back again to find the original text, then forward again, and I just could not deal.
Hmm, I think either I'm misunderstanding your process or I wasn't clear. I was thinking that if I could get the Google translate interleaved (which I assume interleaves automatically) that my French is good enough that I would be able to figure out when it was doing it incorrectly (which I can't do with German), and possibly consult the non-interleaved actual English version if necessary at that point.
But yes, I agree, misaligned translations would defeat the whole purpose!
But I think I'd be able to handle 2-3 page paragraphs in French, although with German, yeah, not so much.
the Google translate interleaved (which I assume interleaves automatically) that my French is good enough
Oh, yes, I see what you mean. Yes, *Google* translate gets interleaved automatically, and the paragraphs would be aligned. When you said you didn't expect paragraph alignment, I thought you meant you didn't mind misaligned paragraphs. Never mind!
ETA: Though be aware that this will either mean using more of our Google Translate free trial on Wilhelmine, or paying for the translation (if we've already exhausted our free trial by that time). Although it just occurred to me the French memoirs are on Gutenberg, which means no OCR issues at least. Small victories!
They're Unix-specific, and I figure you don't use Linux, or that would have come up by now. But maybe I'm wrong!
Anyway, I was just thinking that if the interleaved Google translates end up being mostly for you at some point, I could hand over my scripts and teach you to run them, and you could get a free trial of your own, but...I don't support Windows. ;)
I run cygwin or git bash, so unix scripts ought to work for me modulo weird interface problems because windows sometimes doesn't play well with things that try to emulate unix because it is better
I suspect paths and file extensions may be a problem and require some conversion, but that's promising. If you like, at some point I can work with you to set it up on your computer so you can get a free trial. If not, then we can just start paying for translations. I'm hoping not to need German translations someday.
Though I have to say, 2-3 page paragraphs, even when aligned, still defeat the purpose of an interleaved translation for me. It's fewer clicks to have two tabs open and click on one to see the translation, and on the other to see the original, than to page forward six times to find the translation (because one text page = multiple pages on a smaller screen), and six times back to find the original, and back and forth every time you need to look something up. I don't know how you would put up with that!
When it comes to interleaving long paragraphs, it's not even about skill for me. Even if I were trying to cross-reference two things in English, I still wouldn't want to page back and forth, if I just could have two files side by side and just click on one and the other.
Like when I read Lavisse's Youth of Fritz, he has all his notes at the end. I don't page forward when I'm reading the text to read the end note, then page back to where I was. I'll open the file twice and keep them open side by side, one open to the text and one open to the notes, so I can keep my place in both. But if you don't mind endless paging back and forth, you have more patience than I do!
The thing is, I can't read on my computer -- I have to read on my e-reader anyway. (A combo of limited computer time due to body limitations and limited time sitting down because of kids -- am usually reading while running around the house.) So I'm used to paging back and forth anyway, though to be honest it's usually only a page or two, so yeah, these really long paragraphs are probably going to be annoying.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-05 02:01 pm (UTC)As for something easier for you, I started work on M Wie Melody yesterday, and went right up until one of my scripts errored out, and my brain refused to debug. (I logged 30 minutes at work yesterday, I swear. :() I will continue working on that this weekend, and hope to have that to you soon.
Also, after I finish AW, I'm doing some books you're not, so that should give you a chance to work on Voigt, and hopefully by then, my brain will be in a more cooperative state.
Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-06 12:51 am (UTC)Heinrich and AW are doing their roleplaying game.
M Wie Melody is in the last stage of processing, but it's going to be a while, because the German and the English have different paragraph breaks. So I'm going paragraph-by-paragraph through the two texts to make them match, so that they can then be interleaved (which I can do automatically once they match). I'm earning that half of the Lady Mary bio I didn't pay for. :)
Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-06 02:25 am (UTC)Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-06 02:40 am (UTC)It'll get done. I'll just keep chipping away at it. 20% done already, and that was after debugging my script earlier. Once the paragraph aligning is done, we're only 1 line of code away from interleaving, and then it's yours: original non-Googlified English, interleaved, just for you! :)
Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-06 04:12 am (UTC)Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-06 04:38 pm (UTC)But okay, how about this? I'm halfway through, so what if I send you three files: the German, the English, and an interleaved copy of the first half? That's a couple hundred pages and should give you plenty of German practice. Then if you get through that and you want the second half interleaved instead of in separate files, I'll run through and align the remaining paragraphs then.
Does that work for you?
Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-07 04:16 am (UTC)Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-07 06:36 pm (UTC)Ziebura, or AW? We're about to finish AW, but it might be a while before we get through the remaining Ziebura books. Especially if we try to slow down Ziebura so that we're less overwhelmed by the amount of discussion happening.
Unless you feel like you're not ready for Melody until you do more Duolingo, I actually don't think it would be a bad idea if you did some Melody in conjunction with Wives, which you could read purely in English while practicing your German on something simpler.
Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-07 04:15 am (UTC)Also, just so you know, the interleaved AW has a weird issue where the first 40% is the same as the second 40%! I think the second time it goes on to the end, though.
Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-07 06:30 pm (UTC)He might be? My concern there is that there might be a lot of players we don't know and want to look up or ask Selena about, so I wanted to put that off until my German was a little better. But I'm not wedded to doing it after Krackow and Oster. We could try doing it before and see how the syntax goes.
I'm starting to think I should read things I don't want to discuss in great detail alongside things I do, so that I keep up my German page count but don't accumulate vast numbers of things I need to discuss/research every day.
So if you're willing to start Wives as soon as we finish AW, I could read Sons alongside Wives (Sons being very short, of course), and then Wives would go more slowly. I might also start tackling Wilhelmine's memoirs in German, since they seem to be less or not at all bowdlerized in that edition, I could use the practice, and I do want to reread volume 1 and finish volume 2 now that I know a bunch of things I didn't over a year ago.
Also, just so you know, the interleaved AW has a weird issue where the first 40% is the same as the second 40%! I think the second time it goes on to the end, though.
Argh, I thought I had fixed that! Either I didn't save that change, or I sent you the wrong file. It should go on to the end the second time, though, yes.
Do you want me to send you a corrected file?
Re: AW readthrough: The in-laws
Date: 2020-09-07 09:24 pm (UTC)Nah, I can cut and paste myself :)
German reading group
Date: 2020-09-07 10:18 pm (UTC)I vote for you holding off on her memoirs until we do French, when you can deal with separate files. You have Voigt to practice your German on now, and you can read Wives and Lehndorff with me in English (and maybe some Lehndorff in German), and if I can talk you into it, Oster's Wilhelmine bio in English. Come oooonnnn, she's your fave, it's fic research, we'll talk about her together, it'll be great! ;)
Besides, we'll go slowly while we practice our German on texts we don't need to talk so much about.
Anyway, I'm 4-5 pages from the end of AW, so I've put the interleaved Wives text into the the library. I'll be reading Wives at the same time as Sons, and if I finish Sons first, then either Heimwärts or the Wilhelmine memoirs.
When we finish Wives, then we can discuss whether we want to do Lehndorff next, or whether I should do Oster and Krackow.
Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-07 10:49 pm (UTC)Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-07 11:03 pm (UTC)Okay, but when the paragraphs are misaligned, text and translation get increasingly out of sync, until by the end of the book, you might get 20 consecutive German paragraphs that aren't interleaved at all, but just clumped together, because the total number of paragraphs is different.
So the "translation" of a paragraph later on in the book ends up completely unrelated to the text it's supposedly translating, and you have to hunt for the actual translation. This would ruin the point of an interleaved translation for me, but yes, I suppose that may not be a dealbreaker for you. For me, scanning three pages ahead or behind to try to find the translation would defeat the purpose; I'd rather just have separate files at that point.
Even when the paragraphs were in sync, Horowski's 2-3 page paragraphs had me flipping several phone/Kindle pages forward to find the translation, then back again to find the original text, then forward again, and I just could not deal.
Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-08 12:34 am (UTC)But yes, I agree, misaligned translations would defeat the whole purpose!
But I think I'd be able to handle 2-3 page paragraphs in French, although with German, yeah, not so much.
Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-08 12:42 am (UTC)Oh, yes, I see what you mean. Yes, *Google* translate gets interleaved automatically, and the paragraphs would be aligned. When you said you didn't expect paragraph alignment, I thought you meant you didn't mind misaligned paragraphs. Never mind!
ETA: Though be aware that this will either mean using more of our Google Translate free trial on Wilhelmine, or paying for the translation (if we've already exhausted our free trial by that time). Although it just occurred to me the French memoirs are on Gutenberg, which means no OCR issues at least. Small victories!
Um, do you perchance use a Mac?
Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-08 03:50 am (UTC)Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-08 09:05 pm (UTC)Anyway, I was just thinking that if the interleaved Google translates end up being mostly for you at some point, I could hand over my scripts and teach you to run them, and you could get a free trial of your own, but...I don't support Windows. ;)
Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-12 04:47 am (UTC)because it is betterRe: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-12 12:33 pm (UTC)I'm hoping not to need German translations someday.Re: German reading group
From:Re: German reading group
From:Re: German reading group
From:Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-08 01:53 am (UTC)Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-08 04:12 am (UTC)Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-08 09:08 pm (UTC)Like when I read Lavisse's Youth of Fritz, he has all his notes at the end. I don't page forward when I'm reading the text to read the end note, then page back to where I was. I'll open the file twice and keep them open side by side, one open to the text and one open to the notes, so I can keep my place in both. But if you don't mind endless paging back and forth, you have more patience than I do!
Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-12 04:50 am (UTC)Re: German reading group
Date: 2020-09-12 12:35 pm (UTC)