cahn: (Default)
[personal profile] cahn
...I have nothing clever to say here, just really pleased this is still going :)
[community profile] rheinsberg

Re: Lehndorff

Date: 2020-07-14 06:22 am (UTC)
selenak: (DadLehndorff)
From: [personal profile] selenak
Oh, the editor (Schmidt-Lötzen) mentions it, alright (as in: "to him, Heinrich was the Prince" or "when the author of these writings bursts into tears as the prospect of his beloved Prince Heinrich leaving Berlin for a few days, it is one more sign of a sentimental era"), it's just the reviewers of the 2007 re-edition of the first volume don't.

Something else that occured to me when thinking of the gallery of (known) Heinrich boyfriends: what's missing there is any type of erastes. Whereas Fritz has his sugar daddies as crown prince, complete with double Socrates/Alcibiades present for Mantteufel and Voltaire, and all the Suhm adoration. But while you could argue Heinrich himself played the erastes role in his late life affairs, in his youth he really seems at no point have wanted an older man to show him the ropes, so to speak. Either as a mentor or a lover, let alone both. If Ziebura is right about Marwitz being his first love, he starts with a guy three years older and keeps within his own generation until he hits middle life. Which is interesting in a man whom people, including Ziebura, assume to have had a kink for being dominated by his sex partners.

Re: Lehndorff

Date: 2020-07-15 03:42 am (UTC)
mildred_of_midgard: (Default)
From: [personal profile] mildred_of_midgard
Ooh, I have so many things I want to say but I can't! The erastes point is very interesting, and not one I had noticed! I'll limit myself to:

1) I have never been convinced Heinrich was into being dominated. It's one possible explanation, of course, and one that I definitely find hot, but I think there are too many alternate explanations, at least given the limited evidence I have at my disposal. Ziebura may have a more accurate picture.

2) Hypothesis: Heinrich consistently started relationships with guys in their early 20s, whether he was 19 or 60. Counterevidence, [personal profile] selenak? I don't know all his boyfriends' birthdates, nor do I know when all the relationships started.

If so, possible evidence that sexual passion played a much stronger (although not exclusive) role in his relationships, compared to Fritz, who was a little more all over the place.

In addition to Voltaire, Manteuffel, and Suhm, let's not forget Katte was 26 when Fritz was 18, and Lt. Borcke, possible candidate for boyfriend and at the very least, close relationship, was, 10 years older than Fritz, so 25 when Fritz was 15. And it's been pointed out that the Rheinsberg circle, even the non-boyfriends, were by and large a generation older than Fritz. Fritz was definitely drawn to older mentors when he was younger, along with older romantic, maybe sexual partners.

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