I... am not sure whether I have seen this. I think maybe? It looks vaguely familiar. I know I heard a bunch about it at the time, so maybe that just got stuck in my brain. But YES that is exactly how I picture Heinrich as a gay dancing bff (only rather shorter). (Although I cannot picture Sophie as Roberts' character.) (My first reaction to the excerpt you linked: OMG did we really live through that kind of hair in the 90's? ...we did, didn't we?? (I even have pictures of myself to prove it, sadly.))
Meanwhile, here is a wonderful (danced) version of the contredanse, and here is the menuet (also danced) teen Heinrich and Sophie would have been dancing at all the balls of AW's wedding
These were lovely and I love to picture Heinrich and Sophie dancing these. Incidentally, the minuet they play in the second link (Luigi Boccherini) is a staple of the Suzuki violin repertoire, and I played it countless times as a small person. It was really cool to see them dancing to it (of course, as a child I only had a very vague idea that it was a dance at all) and to see how the parts of the music actually lend themselves to parts of the dance as well. (Also, (a) I am super impressed by how into it the kids seemed to be -- I was forced to take a Cotillion class as a teenager and every single one of us, as far as I know, hated it, although we didn't learn to dance minuets and I might have been more interested if we did -- and (b) I really liked the one girl with the purple swishy skirt :) )
He could totally lie and manouevre with the best of them. (But then, so could Catherine.)
Ahahahaha perhaps that is why they were BFFs and "often open the mouth at the same time to say the same things" :D That is an amazing story and once again I am indebted to both G. Volz and to you for relaying the story :D
I have no other motive for this suggestion than my great admiration and friendship to you and all who belong to you.
Catherine! :D
It is just annoying I did not know about this sooner, I could have explained so much to you.
LOLOLOLOL Fritz do you listen to yourself sometimes??
I am mentally revising my Frederician "Adventures in Babysitting" to include the episode where Heinrich and Sophie organize a midnight raid & slumber party behind Fritz' back.
Excellent!
Which is to say: they were both of them followers of Realpolitik, but the personal fondness was real as well.
This is exactly why I get such a huge kick out of their friendship (and, for that matter, both of them) :D And why I imagine Catherine as partially thinking "eh, besides the gay thing, it's good I didn't marry Heinrich because I would have hated to destroy our friendship by staging a coup and killing him. Also because he might have plotted right back at me" :) ...okay, now I really want the AU where they do get married and end up hilariously triple-crossing each other to fulfill their personal political agendas, but still retain that fondnessfor each other :D
Hair in the 90s: better than in the 80s at least? Also, still modest compared with the 1780s (see also: Marie Antoinette). :)
AU in which young Heinrich and Princess Sophie get married: on the one hand, AU!Catherine, who never bears that name because there is no reason for a change of religion, would have had far less advantageous circumstances for any type of coup. As opposed to Peter, Heinrich is not the heir to the throne, nor ever will be. He's a third brother who until the 7 Years War has exactly zero political power. And since AW quickly produces two sons after that wedding, Heinrich is really far from the throne. What's more, Russia has had three female monarchs before Catherine makes her coup, and Catherine I., the wife of Peter I., has established the precedent that you can, in fact, become the ruling monarch without a single drop of Romanow blood in your vein, based on you being the widow of the deceased Czar and mother of his children. No such circumstances apply for Prussia, with a grand total of three monarchs (F1, FW and Fritz), all male, and all against female rulers in their every uttering. (Not sure Fritz' early last will already has the "no female regent!" clause or not. Also not sure whether FW excluded the possibility of his wife being regent if he should die before his son reaches his majority in the 1722 will, I didn't read it for that, but it's FW, so it's likely.
Still, I would bet that any AU where kids Heinrich and Sophie get married is an AU in which Heinrich does, in fact, take his one shot during the 7 Years War where Fritz is really really depressed post Kunersdorf and goes for the regency. I.e. he and Sophie are the Prussian Macbeths, hopefully with a better ending for either. I'm also sure that Sophie, if Heinrich, as to be expected, won't have sex with her does what Catherine did in RL, i.e. take lovers. Whether Heinrich would be cool with the resulting kids as heirs: impossible to say, since a comparable situation never arose. (Mina never got pregnant, and they were never friends who truly liked each other).
yesssss! Prussian Macbeths, except that Lady, er, Sophie feels no compunction about double-crossing Heinrich afterwards, and vice versa. And also with a happy ending, yes -- for one thing, I can't imagine Sophie ever feeling too bad about causing Fritz' death :P (Heinrich would for a while, but Sophie would be all, "Are you kidding me? Come on, he was the worst, y/y? Look, do I have to remind you of AW?")
It is just annoying I did not know about this sooner, I could have explained so much to you.
LOLOLOLOL Fritz do you listen to yourself sometimes??
No? That would require far more self-awareness than he's equipped for? :-PP
Catherine! :D
:D
Yeah, she and Heinrich are two peas in a pod! They would make excellent Macbeths...for a while.
Btw, the whole "taking the heir away from its parents to be raised as the monarch sees fit" thing that Fritz did to FW2 with such stellar results *cough* was something that was both done to Catherine and by Catherine: Elizaveta took Catherine's son Paul (of the dubious paternity) away at birth, and Catherine similarly later took Paul's son Alexander, her grandson, away.
Dysfunctional families: not limited to Hohenzollerns and Hanovers!
okay, now I really want the AU where they do get married and end up hilariously triple-crossing each other to fulfill their personal political agendas, but still retain that fondnessfor each other :D
THIS. I mean, assuming Fritz is poisoned at the nadir of Prussian fortunes in the Seven Years' War, it spares Heinrich from having to feel bored without him. Even leaving aside the responsibilities of regency, his wife will keep him on his toes. Never a dull moment! :D
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timeasmymeasure
Catherine and Heinrich BFF <3
Date: 2020-03-19 04:41 am (UTC)I... am not sure whether I have seen this. I think maybe? It looks vaguely familiar. I know I heard a bunch about it at the time, so maybe that just got stuck in my brain. But YES that is exactly how I picture Heinrich as a gay dancing bff (only rather shorter). (Although I cannot picture Sophie as Roberts' character.) (My first reaction to the excerpt you linked: OMG did we really live through that kind of hair in the 90's? ...we did, didn't we?? (I even have pictures of myself to prove it, sadly.))
Meanwhile, here is a wonderful (danced) version of the contredanse, and here is the menuet (also danced) teen Heinrich and Sophie would have been dancing at all the balls of AW's wedding
These were lovely and I love to picture Heinrich and Sophie dancing these. Incidentally, the minuet they play in the second link (Luigi Boccherini) is a staple of the Suzuki violin repertoire, and I played it countless times as a small person. It was really cool to see them dancing to it (of course, as a child I only had a very vague idea that it was a dance at all) and to see how the parts of the music actually lend themselves to parts of the dance as well. (Also, (a) I am super impressed by how into it the kids seemed to be -- I was forced to take a Cotillion class as a teenager and every single one of us, as far as I know, hated it, although we didn't learn to dance minuets and I might have been more interested if we did -- and (b) I really liked the one girl with the purple swishy skirt :) )
He could totally lie and manouevre with the best of them. (But then, so could Catherine.)
Ahahahaha perhaps that is why they were BFFs and "often open the mouth at the same time to say the same things" :D That is an amazing story and once again I am indebted to both G. Volz and to you for relaying the story :D
I have no other motive for this suggestion than my great admiration and friendship to you and all who belong to you.
Catherine! :D
It is just annoying I did not know about this sooner, I could have explained so much to you.
LOLOLOLOL Fritz do you listen to yourself sometimes??
I am mentally revising my Frederician "Adventures in Babysitting" to include the episode where Heinrich and Sophie organize a midnight raid & slumber party behind Fritz' back.
Excellent!
Which is to say: they were both of them followers of Realpolitik, but the personal fondness was real as well.
This is exactly why I get such a huge kick out of their friendship (and, for that matter, both of them) :D And why I imagine Catherine as partially thinking "eh, besides the gay thing, it's good I didn't marry Heinrich because I would have hated to destroy our friendship by staging a coup and killing him. Also because he might have plotted right back at me" :) ...okay, now I really want the AU where they do get married and end up hilariously triple-crossing each other to fulfill their personal political agendas, but still retain that fondnessfor each other :D
Re: Catherine and Heinrich BFF <3
Date: 2020-03-19 08:53 am (UTC)AU in which young Heinrich and Princess Sophie get married: on the one hand, AU!Catherine, who never bears that name because there is no reason for a change of religion, would have had far less advantageous circumstances for any type of coup. As opposed to Peter, Heinrich is not the heir to the throne, nor ever will be. He's a third brother who until the 7 Years War has exactly zero political power. And since AW quickly produces two sons after that wedding, Heinrich is really far from the throne. What's more, Russia has had three female monarchs before Catherine makes her coup, and Catherine I., the wife of Peter I., has established the precedent that you can, in fact, become the ruling monarch without a single drop of Romanow blood in your vein, based on you being the widow of the deceased Czar and mother of his children. No such circumstances apply for Prussia, with a grand total of three monarchs (F1, FW and Fritz), all male, and all against female rulers in their every uttering. (Not sure Fritz' early last will already has the "no female regent!" clause or not. Also not sure whether FW excluded the possibility of his wife being regent if he should die before his son reaches his majority in the 1722 will, I didn't read it for that, but it's FW, so it's likely.
Still, I would bet that any AU where kids Heinrich and Sophie get married is an AU in which Heinrich does, in fact, take his one shot during the 7 Years War where Fritz is really really depressed post Kunersdorf and goes for the regency. I.e. he and Sophie are the Prussian Macbeths, hopefully with a better ending for either. I'm also sure that Sophie, if Heinrich, as to be expected, won't have sex with her does what Catherine did in RL, i.e. take lovers. Whether Heinrich would be cool with the resulting kids as heirs: impossible to say, since a comparable situation never arose. (Mina never got pregnant, and they were never friends who truly liked each other).
Re: Catherine and Heinrich BFF <3
Date: 2020-03-21 05:05 am (UTC)Re: Catherine and Heinrich BFF <3
Date: 2020-03-21 12:54 am (UTC)LOLOLOLOL Fritz do you listen to yourself sometimes??
No? That would require far more self-awareness than he's equipped for? :-PP
Catherine! :D
:D
Yeah, she and Heinrich are two peas in a pod! They would make excellent Macbeths...for a while.
Btw, the whole "taking the heir away from its parents to be raised as the monarch sees fit" thing that Fritz did to FW2 with such stellar results *cough* was something that was both done to Catherine and by Catherine: Elizaveta took Catherine's son Paul (of the dubious paternity) away at birth, and Catherine similarly later took Paul's son Alexander, her grandson, away.
Dysfunctional families: not limited to Hohenzollerns and Hanovers!
okay, now I really want the AU where they do get married and end up hilariously triple-crossing each other to fulfill their personal political agendas, but still retain that fondnessfor each other :D
THIS. I mean, assuming Fritz is poisoned at the nadir of Prussian fortunes in the Seven Years' War, it spares Heinrich from having to feel bored without him. Even leaving aside the responsibilities of regency, his wife will keep him on his toes. Never a dull moment! :D