Grumbkow wrote this for Seckendorff directly after it happened, on August 15th. Date reminder: this was not only FW's birthday but exactly a year since father and son had last seen each other. Wlhelmine also names August 15th as the day when she learned about the escape attempt at the ball at Monbijou. Language observation: Grumbkow writes in German, and an old fasihioned, more baroque than roccoco German at that. Also, as I've mentioned before, it's fascinating that FW keeps switching between "Du" and the two more formal adresses - the third person singular "er" or the second person "Ihr" when adressing Fritz, sometimes within the same sentence, which tells you something about his volatille mood. Sadly, there's no way I can reproduce this in English.
As soon as his royal majesty turned towards the Crown Prince, the later threw himself at his feet. After his royal majesty had ordered him to rise, his royal majesty said with a very serious face:
"You will know how to recall what has happened one year ago, and how shamefully you have behaved, and what a godless plan you have pursued. As I have had you with me since childhood, and thus I have known you well, I did everything in the world, in good and in bad matters, to make you an honest man, and as I had already suspected your evil intent, I have treated you in the most harsh and rudest manner while we were at the Saxon camp, in the hope that you would reflect, adopt a different behavior, confess your faults to me and ask for forgiveness. But it has all been in vain, and you only became more stubborn. When a young man dirties himself in courting, starts debouched fights and similar actions, one can still forgive this as the faults of youth. But intentionally behave cowardly and do similar disgusting things, that is unforgivable. You believed that you would get away with your muleheadedness, but listen, my boy, and if you were 60 or 70 years old, you won't tell me what to do! And if I have managed to live my life so far against everyone, I shan't lack means to bring you to heel.
Haven't I tried honestly with you on all occasions, as when I learned of your debts the last time? Haven't I admonished you in a paternal fashion that you should tell me everything, I would pay it all, as long as you told me the truth; whereupon you told me that other than the already named sum, you were only owing 200 taler more, which I did pay and made my peace with you. Afterwards, it was discovered that you were owing several thousands of Talers more, and since you knew that you would never be able to pay this back, it was if you had stolen it, and that's without considering how the French scum, Montoieu and Ferrant, have screwed you over."
His royal majesty furtherly declared that nothing had hurt him more than the fact he hadn't been trusted by the prince, when his majesty had done all for the aggrandizement of the House of Brandenburg, the army and the finances eventually only for him, for his benefit, if only he showed himself worthy. HIs majesty had to declare that his majesty had done everything to win the friendship of the Crown Prince, but it had all been in vain. At this point, the Crown Prince threw himself full of remorse at his father's feet again. His royal majesty asked him afterwards whether his intention hadn't been to go to England. As he replied in the positive, his royal majesty returned: "Now listen well to the consequences! Your mother would have suffered the greatest misfortune as I would naturally have suspected her of having known all about it; your sister I'd have shut away at a place where she could not have seen either sun or moon for the rest of her life. I'd have gone with my army to Hannover and would have burned down everything, even if I had had to sacrifice my life, land and people in order to do it. See, these would have been the fruit of your thoughtless and godless behaviour. And though I had intended to employ you in various war and civilian offices, how could you show yourself to my officers and other servants after this action? The only thing which can repair this would be if you begged for your blood to be disregarded in order to make up for this mistake."
Whereupon the Crown Prince threw himself at his majesty's feet and begged to be confronted with the harshest tests, and he would suffer through anything to win his majesty's grace and esteem back. Upon which his royal majesty asked: "Did you seduce Katte, or did Katte seduce you?" Whereupon the Crown Prince replied without hesitation: "I seduced him", to which his royal majesty returned: "I am pleased that you finally speak the truth for a change."
His majesty went on to ask how he liked the life in Küstrin? Whether he still had an aversion to Wusterhausen and to wearing the Sterbekittel ?("Death jacket" was what Fritz had called a Prussian uniform, which had enraged FW) It could be that the company of the King wasn't good enough for him; it was true, he, the King, had no French manners, he couldn't produce bonmots in the manner of the petit maitres, which he considered as the greatest scoundrels. He was a German prince and would live and die as a German prince. But now the Prince should say what he had won with his caprices and opiniated heart, as he had hated all which the King had loved, and when he, the King, had prized someone, the Prince had put him down. When an officer had been arrested, he (the prince) had commiserated with him and had taken his part. His true friends and all who had meant well with him, he'd hated and slandered, while he'd caressed those who had flattered him and encouraged him in his evil intentions. Now he saw the fruit of such behavior, for since a long time in Prussia and in Berlin no one had asked about him or cared whether or not he was still of this world, and if not some fellow or the other had come from Küstrin reporting that he was playing with balloons there or wore French hair pieces, no one would know whether he was still alive or dead.
Afterwards, his majesty adressed his religious principles aand demonstrated in the tersest way which horrible consequences came from the absolute decree of naming God as the origin of sin, and that Christ hadn't died for all men. Whereupon the Crown Prince swore up and down that he now entirely agreed with his majesty's Christian and orthodox opinion.
Whereupon his majesty admonished him paternally and tenderly that if godless people spoke against his duties against God and his fatherland in his vicinity, he should fall on his knees and beg Jesus Christ with all his heart to get rid of such evil plans iwth the help of the Holy Spirit, and to lead him on better ways. And if this prayer came from the heart, Jesus, who wanted to save all men, would not leave him unheard; whereupon his royal majesty in the hope of further improvement forgave him the past completely. The Crown Prince heard this with the greatest inner agitation, kissed the King's feet, and shed many tears.
I always forget how utterly awful FW is because my brain keeps thinking, no one could *really* be that awful, right? Right?? And FW is like, no, I really AM that awful.
and as I had already suspected your evil intent, I have treated you in the most harsh and rudest manner while we were at the Saxon camp, in the hope that you would reflect, adopt a different behavior, confess your faults to me and ask for forgiveness.
*facepalm* I mean... that sure does sound like FW, all right. Both awful and MAKING NO SENSE.
But intentionally behave cowardly and do similar disgusting things, that is unforgivable.
So by this does he mean Katte? Or what?
Afterwards, it was discovered that you were owing several thousands of Talers more
I don't think I know about this either? (Or at least I don't remember.)
Now he saw the fruit of such behavior,
*headdesk* FW!!
Afterwards, his majesty adressed his religious principles aand demonstrated in the tersest way which horrible consequences came from the absolute decree of naming God as the origin of sin, and that Christ hadn't died for all men. Whereupon the Crown Prince swore up and down that he now entirely agreed with his majesty's Christian and orthodox opinion.
1. Man, FW's dad really did a number on him re: predestination, didn't he. 2. arrrrrrrgh, omg.
I'm not sure whether I'm glad or not to have seen this! No, I'm kidding, I'm glad, of course. But wow that was something else.
*facepalm* I mean... that sure does sound like FW, all right. Both awful and MAKING NO SENSE.
Indeed. "I treated you extra awful in front of everyone so you should confide in me and improve your behaviour!" is...very special FW logic.
But intentionally behave cowardly and do similar disgusting things, that is unforgivable.
So by this does he mean Katte? Or what?
At a guess, he means desertion. Katte, even if FW suspects them of having had sex, falls under debauched behavior, just about forgivable as a youthful flaw if properly repentant. But the army is the holiest of institutions, a deserter from it is a coward, hence, unforgivable. (Fast forward to Fritz' reaction when AW asks for permission to return to Berlin: What, you want to flee, while we fight to keep the state for you and your family? You want to set an example to cowards of the army, who may say: We are only asking for what the Prince of Prussia has obtained? Blush to the bottom of your soul the proposals you make to me; you speak of your honor: it lay in leading the army well and not to lose four battaillons, your magazine and your baggage in one stroke. I willl not entrust you another commando again for as long as I live. (...) But you may remain with the army I lead without your honor being impuned by this. You can, of course, do whatever you want, but you must know that I will deny you as my brother and family if you don't follow the demands of honor, the only one fitting for a Crown Prince! Mind you, that was during war time. Which it was not in 1730. But speak of doing a number on people through the generations...)
Fritz' money debts: I don't think we explicitly brought it up, no, but that was indeed a thing, and one of the reasons why FW was so pissed off in Zeithain already. After the flight attempt and Fritz' arrest, he ordered all of Fritz' books that could be found sold anonymously, which covered some of the debts, and paid for the rest. Here you can see where FW's paranoia comes from, for a change, when you recall that his father's Prussia had been bled dry in terms of money to finance the baroque life style of the King and court, and he, FW, had worked 24/7 to create a stable budget and economy again. Being afraid that a son in debts which he refuses to admit to would just turn out to be F1 reborn and reduce FW's life work to non existence was understandable in this context. However, what FW was incapable of acknowledging was that some of what Fritz had wanted the money for - education, the arts, books - were hardly something any other father, noble or citizen, would have begrudged their child, and that by his own behavior he had made it impossible for his son to trust him.
(The enforced crash course in economics he had Fritz take in Küstrin had the hoped for results in that Fritz, as a monarch, started out if anything even thriftier than FW...except for the arts. See also Barbarina, as Voltaire snarked, getting a higher salary than a Prussian cabinet minister.)
Predestition as a life long FW horror: yup. (F1: Look, he was getting into fights, refused to learn anything but maths and even once threatened his teacher! We had to do something!)
Re: the "no one cares if you life or die, your so called friends have all forgotten you" - as mentioned elsewhere, FW had ordered to tell this to Fritz in the autumn of 1730 already, there with the special addendum that even his mother didn't care. Now while I'm pretty sure Fritz saw through it in the autumn of 1730, I hope he stll saw through it in the summer of 1731, but I'm not entirely sure. Because life long distrust in humanity ensued. And when he did let people in, he micromanaged them.
Ahhhh, thank you! Of course, FW, it's all about the army *sigh* ...I remember you quoting that letter to AW, and it was awful even then, but thank you for bringing in the context, now it brings with it a special kind of intergenerational awfulness...
Debts: *nods* Ah, thanks, yeah, that's interesting, that on one hand (for a change, as you say) in some ways it does seem rather reasonable for FW to be upset (if maybe not that upset!)... and on the other hand, kind of not.
I can see being told "no one cares if you live or die," even if you do see through it rationally... could still do a number on your head psychologically, especially since no one is actually around to refute it (except, we hope, Wilhelmine (if the smuggling letters thing is true) -- and Fredersdorf!)
Being afraid that a son in debts which he refuses to admit to would just turn out to be F1 reborn and reduce FW's life work to non existence was understandable in this context.
This is very true.
However, what FW was incapable of acknowledging was that some of what Fritz had wanted the money for - education, the arts, books - were hardly something any other father, noble or citizen, would have begrudged their child, and that by his own behavior he had made it impossible for his son to trust him.
Agreed. And even the food, which Fritz admittedly splurged on, all his life unless there was good reason (like being at war) not to, feels to me very like overcompensation for not getting enough to eat. FW wants them to eat plain food frugally, fine. FW is actually sending them away from the table hungry, which from a variety of sources seems to have been the case, even allowing for some Wilhelmine exaggeration...you can really mess kids up that way.
If FW had met Fritz halfway instead of insisting on total submission and a complete mirror of himself, I think Fritz's spending wouldn't have gotten that bad, oh, and he would have shown far more interest in the army at a younger age, if it hadn't been being rammed down his throat. FW was in some ways his own worst enemy, and he and Fritz got into a very bad feedback loop.
Now while I'm pretty sure Fritz saw through it in the autumn of 1730, I hope he stll saw through it in the summer of 1731, but I'm not entirely sure. Because life long distrust in humanity ensued. And when he did let people in, he micromanaged them.
:/
The one thing that gives me hope was that even at Küstrin, complete strangers were apparently coming together to make his life easier. And he knew about the marital warfare that was his parents' marriage. And he knew even austere army guy Hans Heinrich let his son get an education and play the flute, LIKE EVERY OTHER NOBLE FATHER IN EUROPE. FW was always the outlier in Fritz's life, and he knew that.
I suspect his lifelong distrust in humanity can be accounted for without him having believed his mother and sister had forgotten about him. There's enough other bad stuff going on in his life to account for all sorts of psychological issues. (When I'm making up stories in my head, it generally takes me about two consecutive rounds of reincarnation to plausibly get even half of them under control, lol.)
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timeasmymeasure
Grumbkow-Seckendorff protocol of the August 1731 submission
Date: 2020-03-11 09:04 pm (UTC)Re: Grumbkow-Seckendorff protocol of the August 1731 submission
Date: 2020-03-13 06:33 pm (UTC)As soon as his royal majesty turned towards the Crown Prince, the later threw himself at his feet. After his royal majesty had ordered him to rise, his royal majesty said with a very serious face:
"You will know how to recall what has happened one year ago, and how shamefully you have behaved, and what a godless plan you have pursued. As I have had you with me since childhood, and thus I have known you well, I did everything in the world, in good and in bad matters, to make you an honest man, and as I had already suspected your evil intent, I have treated you in the most harsh and rudest manner while we were at the Saxon camp, in the hope that you would reflect, adopt a different behavior, confess your faults to me and ask for forgiveness. But it has all been in vain, and you only became more stubborn. When a young man dirties himself in courting, starts debouched fights and similar actions, one can still forgive this as the faults of youth. But intentionally behave cowardly and do similar disgusting things, that is unforgivable. You believed that you would get away with your muleheadedness, but listen, my boy, and if you were 60 or 70 years old, you won't tell me what to do! And if I have managed to live my life so far against everyone, I shan't lack means to bring you to heel.
Haven't I tried honestly with you on all occasions, as when I learned of your debts the last time? Haven't I admonished you in a paternal fashion that you should tell me everything, I would pay it all, as long as you told me the truth; whereupon you told me that other than the already named sum, you were only owing 200 taler more, which I did pay and made my peace with you. Afterwards, it was discovered that you were owing several thousands of Talers more, and since you knew that you would never be able to pay this back, it was if you had stolen it, and that's without considering how the French scum, Montoieu and Ferrant, have screwed you over."
His royal majesty furtherly declared that nothing had hurt him more than the fact he hadn't been trusted by the prince, when his majesty had done all for the aggrandizement of the House of Brandenburg, the army and the finances eventually only for him, for his benefit, if only he showed himself worthy. HIs majesty had to declare that his majesty had done everything to win the friendship of the Crown Prince, but it had all been in vain. At this point, the Crown Prince threw himself full of remorse at his father's feet again. His royal majesty asked him afterwards whether his intention hadn't been to go to England. As he replied in the positive, his royal majesty returned: "Now listen well to the consequences! Your mother would have suffered the greatest misfortune as I would naturally have suspected her of having known all about it; your sister I'd have shut away at a place where she could not have seen either sun or moon for the rest of her life. I'd have gone with my army to Hannover and would have burned down everything, even if I had had to sacrifice my life, land and people in order to do it. See, these would have been the fruit of your thoughtless and godless behaviour. And though I had intended to employ you in various war and civilian offices, how could you show yourself to my officers and other servants after this action? The only thing which can repair this would be if you begged for your blood to be disregarded in order to make up for this mistake."
Whereupon the Crown Prince threw himself at his majesty's feet and begged to be confronted with the harshest tests, and he would suffer through anything to win his majesty's grace and esteem back. Upon which his royal majesty asked: "Did you seduce Katte, or did Katte seduce you?" Whereupon the Crown Prince replied without hesitation: "I seduced him", to which his royal majesty returned: "I am pleased that you finally speak the truth for a change."
His majesty went on to ask how he liked the life in Küstrin? Whether he still had an aversion to Wusterhausen and to wearing the Sterbekittel ?("Death jacket" was what Fritz had called a Prussian uniform, which had enraged FW) It could be that the company of the King wasn't good enough for him; it was true, he, the King, had no French manners, he couldn't produce bonmots in the manner of the petit maitres, which he considered as the greatest scoundrels. He was a German prince and would live and die as a German prince. But now the Prince should say what he had won with his caprices and opiniated heart, as he had hated all which the King had loved, and when he, the King, had prized someone, the Prince had put him down. When an officer had been arrested, he (the prince) had commiserated with him and had taken his part. His true friends and all who had meant well with him, he'd hated and slandered, while he'd caressed those who had flattered him and encouraged him in his evil intentions. Now he saw the fruit of such behavior, for since a long time in Prussia and in Berlin no one had asked about him or cared whether or not he was still of this world, and if not some fellow or the other had come from Küstrin reporting that he was playing with balloons there or wore French hair pieces, no one would know whether he was still alive or dead.
Afterwards, his majesty adressed his religious principles aand demonstrated in the tersest way which horrible consequences came from the absolute decree of naming God as the origin of sin, and that Christ hadn't died for all men. Whereupon the Crown Prince swore up and down that he now entirely agreed with his majesty's Christian and orthodox opinion.
Whereupon his majesty admonished him paternally and tenderly that if godless people spoke against his duties against God and his fatherland in his vicinity, he should fall on his knees and beg Jesus Christ with all his heart to get rid of such evil plans iwth the help of the Holy Spirit, and to lead him on better ways. And if this prayer came from the heart, Jesus, who wanted to save all men, would not leave him unheard; whereupon his royal majesty in the hope of further improvement forgave him the past completely. The Crown Prince heard this with the greatest inner agitation, kissed the King's feet, and shed many tears.
Re: Grumbkow-Seckendorff protocol of the August 1731 submission
Date: 2020-03-14 04:52 am (UTC)I always forget how utterly awful FW is because my brain keeps thinking, no one could *really* be that awful, right? Right?? And FW is like, no, I really AM that awful.
and as I had already suspected your evil intent, I have treated you in the most harsh and rudest manner while we were at the Saxon camp, in the hope that you would reflect, adopt a different behavior, confess your faults to me and ask for forgiveness.
*facepalm* I mean... that sure does sound like FW, all right. Both awful and MAKING NO SENSE.
But intentionally behave cowardly and do similar disgusting things, that is unforgivable.
So by this does he mean Katte? Or what?
Afterwards, it was discovered that you were owing several thousands of Talers more
I don't think I know about this either? (Or at least I don't remember.)
Now he saw the fruit of such behavior,
*headdesk* FW!!
Afterwards, his majesty adressed his religious principles aand demonstrated in the tersest way which horrible consequences came from the absolute decree of naming God as the origin of sin, and that Christ hadn't died for all men. Whereupon the Crown Prince swore up and down that he now entirely agreed with his majesty's Christian and orthodox opinion.
1. Man, FW's dad really did a number on him re: predestination, didn't he.
2. arrrrrrrgh, omg.
I'm not sure whether I'm glad or not to have seen this! No, I'm kidding, I'm glad, of course. But wow that was something else.
Re: Grumbkow-Seckendorff protocol of the August 1731 submission
Date: 2020-03-14 06:15 am (UTC)*facepalm* I mean... that sure does sound like FW, all right. Both awful and MAKING NO SENSE.
Indeed. "I treated you extra awful in front of everyone so you should confide in me and improve your behaviour!" is...very special FW logic.
But intentionally behave cowardly and do similar disgusting things, that is unforgivable.
So by this does he mean Katte? Or what?
At a guess, he means desertion. Katte, even if FW suspects them of having had sex, falls under debauched behavior, just about forgivable as a youthful flaw if properly repentant. But the army is the holiest of institutions, a deserter from it is a coward, hence, unforgivable. (Fast forward to Fritz' reaction when AW asks for permission to return to Berlin: What, you want to flee, while we fight to keep the state for you and your family? You want to set an example to cowards of the army, who may say: We are only asking for what the Prince of Prussia has obtained? Blush to the bottom of your soul the proposals you make to me; you speak of your honor: it lay in leading the army well and not to lose four battaillons, your magazine and your baggage in one stroke. I willl not entrust you another commando again for as long as I live. (...) But you may remain with the army I lead without your honor being impuned by this. You can, of course, do whatever you want, but you must know that I will deny you as my brother and family if you don't follow the demands of honor, the only one fitting for a Crown Prince! Mind you, that was during war time. Which it was not in 1730. But speak of doing a number on people through the generations...)
Fritz' money debts: I don't think we explicitly brought it up, no, but that was indeed a thing, and one of the reasons why FW was so pissed off in Zeithain already. After the flight attempt and Fritz' arrest, he ordered all of Fritz' books that could be found sold anonymously, which covered some of the debts, and paid for the rest. Here you can see where FW's paranoia comes from, for a change, when you recall that his father's Prussia had been bled dry in terms of money to finance the baroque life style of the King and court, and he, FW, had worked 24/7 to create a stable budget and economy again. Being afraid that a son in debts which he refuses to admit to would just turn out to be F1 reborn and reduce FW's life work to non existence was understandable in this context. However, what FW was incapable of acknowledging was that some of what Fritz had wanted the money for - education, the arts, books - were hardly something any other father, noble or citizen, would have begrudged their child, and that by his own behavior he had made it impossible for his son to trust him.
(The enforced crash course in economics he had Fritz take in Küstrin had the hoped for results in that Fritz, as a monarch, started out if anything even thriftier than FW...except for the arts. See also Barbarina, as Voltaire snarked, getting a higher salary than a Prussian cabinet minister.)
Predestition as a life long FW horror: yup. (F1: Look, he was getting into fights, refused to learn anything but maths and even once threatened his teacher! We had to do something!)
Re: the "no one cares if you life or die, your so called friends have all forgotten you" - as mentioned elsewhere, FW had ordered to tell this to Fritz in the autumn of 1730 already, there with the special addendum that even his mother didn't care. Now while I'm pretty sure Fritz saw through it in the autumn of 1730, I hope he stll saw through it in the summer of 1731, but I'm not entirely sure. Because life long distrust in humanity ensued. And when he did let people in, he micromanaged them.
Re: Grumbkow-Seckendorff protocol of the August 1731 submission
Date: 2020-03-15 07:05 pm (UTC)Debts: *nods* Ah, thanks, yeah, that's interesting, that on one hand (for a change, as you say) in some ways it does seem rather reasonable for FW to be upset (if maybe not that upset!)... and on the other hand, kind of not.
I can see being told "no one cares if you live or die," even if you do see through it rationally... could still do a number on your head psychologically, especially since no one is actually around to refute it (except, we hope, Wilhelmine (if the smuggling letters thing is true) -- and Fredersdorf!)
Re: Grumbkow-Seckendorff protocol of the August 1731 submission
Date: 2020-03-20 11:05 pm (UTC)This is very true.
However, what FW was incapable of acknowledging was that some of what Fritz had wanted the money for - education, the arts, books - were hardly something any other father, noble or citizen, would have begrudged their child, and that by his own behavior he had made it impossible for his son to trust him.
Agreed. And even the food, which Fritz admittedly splurged on, all his life unless there was good reason (like being at war) not to, feels to me very like overcompensation for not getting enough to eat. FW wants them to eat plain food frugally, fine. FW is actually sending them away from the table hungry, which from a variety of sources seems to have been the case, even allowing for some Wilhelmine exaggeration...you can really mess kids up that way.
If FW had met Fritz halfway instead of insisting on total submission and a complete mirror of himself, I think Fritz's spending wouldn't have gotten that bad, oh, and he would have shown far more interest in the army at a younger age, if it hadn't been being rammed down his throat. FW was in some ways his own worst enemy, and he and Fritz got into a very bad feedback loop.
Now while I'm pretty sure Fritz saw through it in the autumn of 1730, I hope he stll saw through it in the summer of 1731, but I'm not entirely sure. Because life long distrust in humanity ensued. And when he did let people in, he micromanaged them.
:/
The one thing that gives me hope was that even at Küstrin, complete strangers were apparently coming together to make his life easier. And he knew about the marital warfare that was his parents' marriage. And he knew even austere army guy Hans Heinrich let his son get an education and play the flute, LIKE EVERY OTHER NOBLE FATHER IN EUROPE. FW was always the outlier in Fritz's life, and he knew that.
I suspect his lifelong distrust in humanity can be accounted for without him having believed his mother and sister had forgotten about him. There's enough other bad stuff going on in his life to account for all sorts of psychological issues. (When I'm making up stories in my head, it generally takes me about two consecutive rounds of reincarnation to plausibly get even half of them under control, lol.)