No difference, Oberhofmarschall sounds more grandiose, that's all.
Ah, okay, I thought you were presenting this as possible counterevidence to the identification. Looks like we're all on the same page, then.
Lehndorff regards this as a proof no good deed goes unpunished because Pöllnitz promptly appoints himself Amalie's Oberhofmarschall (she doesn't have one since doesn't have a large enough Household of her own), to which everyone goes "oh no you're not!"
LOL. Lehndorff has the best (non-Hans Hermann) gossip!
So: what was a type like Ludwig the sugar hoarder like as a young man, and was Fritz promoting or punishing him when making him his unwanted wife's Oberhofmarschall?
Both very good questions! In answer to the second one, probably a little of both: Fritz obviously didn't think highly enough of him to give him a better job, but it is respectable. What was he like as a young man? Your guess is as good as mine. Hans Hermann must have experienced a very different side of young Fritz than older Lehndorff did, and ditto with cousin Ludolf the diligent participator in youthful escapades and future terrible husband, so Hans Hermann may also have seen future sugar hoarder at his best. Or they may have hated each other, or anything in between, who knows.
Also, how come Grandpa Wartensleben, who was a baroque splendour guy, had such a cheapskate son? Then again: F1 had FW!
Incidentally, if sugar hoarder Ludwig did indeed make a pass at EC (in between hitting on the staff) and if Friedrich Sophus thought she was hot, that makes two Wartenslebens who considered her attractive.
AS for cousin Ludolf the future terrible husband: Lehndorff himself admists elsewhere that beloved Prince of Prussia AW was also a terrible husband. (By neglect, not by active insult, but stll, neglect hurts, too.)So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife. Especially if she, too, had feelings for Lehndorff when she married. I mean, we don't know that. For all we know, it was entirely on Lehndorff's side, and she just thought he was her nice cousin but didn't care either way whom she married as long as it was a good prospect, which Ludolf certainly was. But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
Incidentally, she ended up as chief Lady in Waiting to Ferdinand's wife so spent a lot of time in Ferdinand's residence Friedrichsruh, or when Ferdinand & family were visiting Heinrich came along.
Incidentally, if sugar hoarder Ludwig did indeed make a pass at EC (in between hitting on the staff) and if Friedrich Sophus thought she was hot, that makes two Wartenslebens who considered her attractive.
Sorry, my wording was confusing. What I meant was that Friedrich Sophus said *Fritz* said she was hot. (This is in the 1730s, when the big Hohenzollern question of the decade is: is Fritz trying to get an heir on his wife or not?)
So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife.
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. And who else was a terrible husband but great fun for young Hans Hermann to hang out with? Fritz!
But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
timeasmymeasure
Re: Wartenslebens
Date: 2020-03-08 06:05 pm (UTC)Ah, okay, I thought you were presenting this as possible counterevidence to the identification. Looks like we're all on the same page, then.
Lehndorff regards this as a proof no good deed goes unpunished because Pöllnitz promptly appoints himself Amalie's Oberhofmarschall (she doesn't have one since doesn't have a large enough Household of her own), to which everyone goes "oh no you're not!"
LOL. Lehndorff has the best (non-Hans Hermann) gossip!
So: what was a type like Ludwig the sugar hoarder like as a young man, and was Fritz promoting or punishing him when making him his unwanted wife's Oberhofmarschall?
Both very good questions! In answer to the second one, probably a little of both: Fritz obviously didn't think highly enough of him to give him a better job, but it is respectable. What was he like as a young man? Your guess is as good as mine. Hans Hermann must have experienced a very different side of young Fritz than older Lehndorff did, and ditto with cousin Ludolf the diligent participator in youthful escapades and future terrible husband, so Hans Hermann may also have seen future sugar hoarder at his best. Or they may have hated each other, or anything in between, who knows.
Also, how come Grandpa Wartensleben, who was a baroque splendour guy, had such a cheapskate son? Then again: F1 had FW!
I see you answered your own question. ;)
Re: Wartenslebens
Date: 2020-03-09 05:45 pm (UTC)AS for cousin Ludolf the future terrible husband: Lehndorff himself admists elsewhere that beloved Prince of Prussia AW was also a terrible husband. (By neglect, not by active insult, but stll, neglect hurts, too.)So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife. Especially if she, too, had feelings for Lehndorff when she married. I mean, we don't know that. For all we know, it was entirely on Lehndorff's side, and she just thought he was her nice cousin but didn't care either way whom she married as long as it was a good prospect, which Ludolf certainly was. But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
Incidentally, she ended up as chief Lady in Waiting to Ferdinand's wife so spent a lot of time in Ferdinand's residence Friedrichsruh, or when Ferdinand & family were visiting Heinrich came along.
Re: Wartenslebens
Date: 2020-03-09 06:04 pm (UTC)Sorry, my wording was confusing. What I meant was that Friedrich Sophus said *Fritz* said she was hot. (This is in the 1730s, when the big Hohenzollern question of the decade is: is Fritz trying to get an heir on his wife or not?)
So it's entirely possible that Ludolf was great fun to be with for Hans Herrmann, but not so much for his wife.
Yes, exactly what I was thinking. And who else was a terrible husband but great fun for young Hans Hermann to hang out with? Fritz!
But it's equally possible she'd been at least a bit in love, and that would not have made for a good start for the marriage, which in turn could have soured Ludolf's behavior.
*nod* Quite possible.