cahn | Frederick the Great discussion post 11

In our last installment, our heroes found that Henri de Catt's memoirs, a major source for current biographers of Frederick the Great, are not to be trusted!!

rheinsberg

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From:

selenak

Though Valory doesn't seem too impressed with Fritz's desire to make something of himself artistically. Come on Valory, we need to encourage that kind of behavior!

Absolutely. But consider:

a) if you were co-starring in a satiric porn poem by Fritz, you might not think too well of his literary efforts, either, and

b) Valory writes this in 1753. Which means: Fritz/Voltaire is going DOWN. Now I have no idea what Valory's opinion on Voltaire was, either as a writer or a person, and at a guess, he probably thought both Fritz and Voltaire were at fault. Hell, for all I know, he thought Voltaire was completely at fault. But while it's possible to watch that spectacle from afar with pop corn munching glee, Valory has a front row seat. And Voltaire is still a French citizen. And France's most famous living writer, no matter that much of his stuff can't be published within France due to censorship. This means Valory can't play audience. As I recall Voltaire mentions him in his letter to Fredersdorf. Which means in 1753, Valory has the dubious joy of being stuck in the middle between Fritz and Voltaire.

....would you wish Fritz occupied himself a bit less with literary matters right then?

FW, though, if you're going to complain about him being a lying liar who lies to you, have you considered not putting him in the position of having to lie to you every other breath? Fathers, provoke not your children to duplicity. :P

Yep. You broke it, FW, you own it. Or, as Fritz himself put it to Grumbkow: he's your work of art, your creation.

I had come across that quote in a short story about a fictional meeting between Fritz and MT which was such a let down that it contributed to my determination to write my own take(s) for Yuletide. Since it was a short story, like I said, I couldn't tell whether the writer made it up or used a source (no bibliography or footnote in short stories).

Speaking of footnotes, I duly note Valory went to the trouble of getting a reliable second source on that FW quote - which is very Woodward and Bernstein in "All the President's Men" of him, but doesn't tell us who told him about it originally. Still, responsible journalism, err, envoy-ism, Valory! (He was in a position to ask AW because, as mentioned, he like Lehndorff hung out with all three princes at that time and had become close to them; the quoted letter from AW about shooting at sparrows in Spandau and this being preparation for murder from the Ziebura biography is adressed to Valory, so there was quite a lot of trust involved, it seems.

Incidentally, letters like these are a refutation of Andrew Bisset's assumption that diplomats in peace time have nothing interesting to tell!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

....would you wish Fritz occupied himself a bit less with literary matters right then?

Touché. TOUCHÉ. WELL PLAYED, MA'AM.

Also, don't say things like

a) if you were co-starring in a satiric porn poem by Fritz, you might not think too well of his literary efforts, either

when I'm eating, I might choke and die. :P

I had come across that quote in a short story about a fictional meeting between Fritz and MT which was such a let down that it contributed to my determination to write my own take(s) for Yuletide.

I'm glad you did, but wow, what is with these letdown stories? How do you make Fritz/Voltaire/Émilie triangle bland where there's canonical fireworks going off every other week? Come on, authors!

Incidentally, letters like these are a refutation of Andrew Bisset's assumption that diplomats in peace time have nothing interesting to tell!

Can you really consider Fritz/Voltaire peacetime, though? :P

From:

selenak

I'm glad you did, but wow, what is with these letdown stories? How do you make Fritz/Voltaire/Émilie triangle bland where there's canonical fireworks going off every other week? Come on, authors!

I know, I know. So much potential, so much waste! Sire, ich eile (Quote from a Voltaire letter about finally coming to Prussia), the Fritz/Voltaire/Emilie novella by Hans Joachim Schädlich manages to sound like Voltaire at his most self pitying without any of Voltaire‘s wit. It has the David Bodanis characterisation of Fritz, which tells you all you need to know. Maupertuis is a villain who goes after König just because he can and Voltaire protects König, that‘s his whole reason for that part of the disaster. This novella’s Voltaire is basically Zimmermann’s Fritz. (Minus the unfortunate operation.) Also, the novella can‘t decide whether it wants to be fiction or non fiction, so much of it is just a summary of what happens (with extreme Voltaire bias and zero Voltaire wit, as mentioned), and very occasionally, there‘s a fictional dialogue. This includes the aftermath of Émilie‘s death, in which Voltaire yells at Lambert „You murdered her!“. Émilie is Voltaire‘s manic pixie dreamgirl without being manic, because remember, bland. (No mention whatsover of her backstory with Maupertuis, btw.) It‘s just one long exercise of frustration.

Sie machte Frieden (title is from Matthias Claudius poem about MT after her death, which I have already quoted to you many a post ago) is a short story with a good premise (ghost of MT and ghost of Fritz meet at Sanssouci when his body gets finally buried there because reconciling with her is his unfinished business and he‘s hers) which it utterly wastes. The ghost of Henri de Catt is also around; this is Catt as Bambi, which back then wasn‘t a problem for me because this was before I read anything of his. What is a problem, however, is that any version of MT, ghostly or not, who says „call me du and Resi“ to Henri de Catt is not one I can accept. Also, the premise is wasted by the two not talking to each other because the author totally chickened out of imagining what they might say to each other; instead, they both talk to de Catt in mostly quotes from Catt‘s memoirs (Fritz), MT‘s letters, and made up dialogue of the „Call me Resi“ type. Ugh.

Fritz/Voltaire as peace time: um, cold war? Cuba crisis? Also, my next crack fic should be the very secret diary of the Marquis de Valory, having to deal with Voltaire, Fritz, and the Palladion. And Voltaire‘s niece. (Also a French citizen illegally arrested and imprisoned in Frankfurt.) That man must have had nerves of steel. Though not endlessly so. Mitchell didn‘t get to meet him, since Valory‘s successor, the same guy who accused Fredersdorf of taking money from foreigners, had replaced Valory as envoy by April 1756.

You know which writer should have a go at Fritz/Voltaire/Émilie? Christopher Hampton, whose dramatisation of „Les Liasons Dangereuses“ proves he can do the period really well, and whose play „Tales from Hollywood“ about some of our exiled literati during WWII (Ödön von Horvath, Brecht, the Brothers Mann) proves he can do Germans without going into clichés.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

This novella’s Voltaire is basically Zimmermann’s Fritz. (Minus the unfortunate operation.)

I laughed, I admit. Which is honestly kind of Bodanis' Voltaire, minus the extreme defensiveness.

ETA: No, I take it back, Bodanis preserves the wit in the midst of all his hero-worship. OMG, how can you lose the wit?

(with extreme Voltaire bias and zero Voltaire wit, as mentioned)

I get that Voltaire's wit is hard to reproduce, but that's what quotes are for!

What is a problem, however, is that any version of MT, ghostly or not, who says „call me du and Resi“ to Henri de Catt is not one I can accept.

What.

Also, the premise is wasted by the two not talking to each other

OMMGGG.

instead, they both talk to de Catt in mostly quotes from Catt‘s memoirs (Fritz), MT‘s letters, and made up dialogue of the „Call me Resi“ type.

Whyyyyy??? Why would you do such a thing? Either of those things!

That is *not* what quotes are for!

Oh, you know what? I know why you would do such a thing. IF YOU WERE POSSESSED BY THE GHOST OF HENRI DE CATT. Presents Catt as total Bambi, check. Catt present at and integral to the most important events, check. Catt on totally intimate terms with the monarchs immediately after meeting them, check.

Mes amies, methinks I detect the hands of Swiss cyber agents from the beyond.

Also, my next crack fic should be the very secret diary of the Marquis de Valory, having to deal with Voltaire, Fritz, and the Palladion. And Voltaire‘s niece. (Also a French citizen illegally arrested and imprisoned in Frankfurt.)

Yes, please!

Valory‘s successor, the same guy who accused Fredersdorf of taking money from foreigners, had replaced Valory as envoy by April 1756.

That's interesting, because Fredersdorf only lasts one year more (until April 1757,I believe). That means this comment is coming from his last year of service, and I can see how that could get confused with dismissal on grounds of dishonesty.

Also, my next crack fic should be the very secret diary of the Marquis de Valory, having to deal with Voltaire, Fritz, and the Palladion.

I just want to reiterate: YES. And also YES. I speak on behalf of us all!

Edited Date: 2020-02-25 03:39 pm (UTC)

From:

cahn

Oh, you know what? I know why you would do such a thing. IF YOU WERE POSSESSED BY THE GHOST OF HENRI DE CATT.

YOU HAVE CLEARLY HIT UPON THE SOLUTION.

I just want to reiterate: YES. And also YES. I speak on behalf of us all!

This is what I get for getting to all these responses late, well after said crack fic has actually happened, but: I am adding my YES!

From:

cahn

What is a problem, however, is that any version of MT, ghostly or not, who says „call me du and Resi“ to Henri de Catt is not one I can accept. Also, the premise is wasted by the two not talking to each other because the author totally chickened out of imagining what they might say to each other; instead, they both talk to de Catt in mostly quotes from Catt‘s memoirs (Fritz), MT‘s letters, and made up dialogue of the „Call me Resi“ type. Ugh.

WHY
WHY WOULD YOU EVEN DO THAT

At least I have my Yuletide fic <3333333