Frederick the Great discussion post 9
Jan. 13th, 2020 09:09 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahn...I leave you guys alone for one weekend and it's time for a new Fritz post, lol!
I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)
Frederick the Great links
I'm gonna reply to the previous post comments but I guess new letter-reading, etc. should go in this one :)
Frederick the Great links
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-19 03:49 pm (UTC)The gist of the Mandarin tumblr comic is that our blue-eyed boy Heinrich says to his boo, “Marwitz, where shall we go to play today?”, and the eagle-eyed Fritz notices his brother’s hearts-in-eyes expression, and then swoops in to ask Marwitz if he’d finished his task in recording all the places they’d visited, and when M said he had, then commands that they start work on another book. I’m assuming the person on the right is Heinrich sans court wig, bc he’s crying; when asked (by Fritz?) why that’s so, he says, “Sire, you are indeed a cruel ruler.” There’s half a panel missing at the top of that final page — it looks like Heinrich (or Marwitz?) says something which can’t be read, and the response is, “Not if you want to break (your/his) rice bowl”, which in the context is a reference to placing a person’s gainful employment in jeopardy. Nothing that can’t be discerned from the art itself, ofc.
[Also: how rusty my Mandarin is! I’ve been exercising my French at its expense, it seems. Hopefully no embarrassing mistakes upstream, lol XD]
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-19 04:41 pm (UTC)Even when you said "the fact Fritz discovered M’s STD at all" earlier in this discussion, I made a note to add that it's a fact only in the context of the hypothesizing we're doing, not an actual historical fact. As far as I know, the only evidence we have for it is a letter from one guy (Fritz) who appears to be, in a very emotional and not at all objective way, warning his brother and probable rival away from him. I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that would stand up in court.
If Marwitz did have an STD, it's possible Fritz heard of it from a third party and not through firsthand knowledge, or that he deduced it from medical treatments he was receiving or what. (Fritz also did have spies, let's not forget.)
Thank you for the translation! If there are mistakes, I won't catch them, since my knowledge of this subject is at the level of...I know what Mandarin *is*? And that's about as far as it goes. :D
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-19 04:46 pm (UTC)Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-19 11:46 pm (UTC)as opposed to being written solely as a victim
Agree. So much of fandom (and human thinking, really) tends to go black-and-white. All my faves are problematic because I like watching them be problematic. I'm still inordinately pleased with this review I got on one of my fics: "One thing that made this story so amazing was the combination of [character]'s conceit and his human decency; most fanfics choose one of his personality traits and play it up far more than it ever was in the actual book."
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-20 02:05 pm (UTC)This must have been endlessly frustrating afterwards. :) Am imagining Heinrich in some nice Parisian salon during his second Paris visit, in a Corner with Gertrud Mara Schmeling and Barbarina (on holidays from Silesia) going "how did he know?!?"
(And then Barbarina makes a toast to Fritz, the bastard. He did pay handsomely, and damn but he had an eye for the bad 'uns.)
More seriously, yes, I'm always a fan of layers. Fritz on one level thinking that Marwitz might be fun but is Up To No Good and hence not a suitable love interest for Younger Brother, who is after all Fritz' responsibility (SD won't notice, that's for sure, and also Sainted Mom SHOULD not be bothered with such things), on another level makiing a power play because what the helll, Heinrich, poaching my pages? (How come this particular page is even interested in Heinrich instead of being solely devoted to his King, in whatever fashion?) And on a third level, there's the King who' ll write later that Princes of the Blood need to be put in their place every now and then, starting early on, so they don't get ideas. - All this in combination is way more interesting than Fritz simply being mean. Ditto for Heinrich one level simply being in love/lust with Marwitz, sure, whether or not this is his first love, but on another also making an powerplay (see earlier comment on Fritz not being the only one to come out of S2 with a case of "yay me!", especially at age 19, when wanting to rebell against the authority figure in your life or at least tweaking it a bit is practically a norm, and then dumping Marwitz (the first time around) because Fritz was right as much as because Heinrich feels betrayed is way more interesting than wide eyed victim H.
Here's to layers and ambiguity and messed upness on all levels with everyone involved, say I.
(Now I just have to figure out what Marwitz thinks he's getting out of all this.)
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-20 04:13 pm (UTC)Love it!
(And then Barbarina makes a toast to Fritz, the bastard. He did pay handsomely, and damn but he had an eye for the bad 'uns.)
YES GOD YES. You bastard.
I like how you've got the only people here who could drink to Fritz paying handsomely. :P
Also, agree about multiple motives for everyone.
How come this particular page is even interested in Heinrich instead of being solely devoted to his King
"Haven't you heard I am der Einzige?!"
(Now I just have to figure out what Marwitz thinks he's getting out of all this.)
He read the Very Secret Manuscript on how to succeed at Fritz's court? :P Let's see, so far we're up to the following people starting family collections:
Katte (historical evidence)
Algarotti (inside joke)
Voltaire (historical evidence)
Marwitz - male (historical evidence)
Marwitz - female (inside joke*)
Trenck (historical evidence)
Glasow (inside joke)
Fredersdorf (CRACKFIC ONLY)
Am I missing anyone?
* Unless you believe "close friend" means "Wilhelmine/Marwitz action," in which case female Marwitz might be starting a collection at the Bayreuth court.
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-20 06:17 pm (UTC)True, everyone else would start to cough indignantly.
Apropos Money, true fax, in the annals of "Heinrich's boyfriends", subsection "Money" but also subsection "Power Play", there's this, in 1774:
Fritz: Well done you, with all the Polish partioning, and also, our recent teamwork with the Swedish relations was heartwarming. I'm thinking presents. I'm also thinking your current boyfriend Kaphengst sucks. Dump him.
Heinrich: ...What?
Fritz: Dump Kaphengst. He's no good, trust me. Also, it's not up to debate. I'm making it a royal order for you to dismiss him and to move him out of Rheinsberg. Along with 10 000 Friedrichsdor so you can pay him off.
(No really, he did make it an order. Supposedly in unprintable language.)
Heinrich:...
Heinrich: *doubles that money out of his own purse, buys Meseberg Palace (not far from Rheinsberg, today where Germany puts its longer staying state visitors in), dismisses Kaphengst officially from his services, gives him the Palace, visits as soon as Kaphengst has moved in.
Heinrich: *writes letter to Fritz* Mon cher frère, just to tell you Major Kaphengst has been dismissed from my services as ordered and has moved out of Rheinsberg. Meseberg's lovely, you should come. Cheerio, Henri.
(In non-crack-terms, he did write Fritz deliberately from Meseberg.)
(Flashforward: Kaphengst parties so hard in Meseberg that he quickly loses all Heinrich gave him, and then some, so Heinrich has to sell his paint collection to Catherine and cut down his own budget in order to cover for it, then finally calls it quits with Kaphengst.)
Fritz 'n Heinrich, simultanously: Why are you like this?
He read the Very Secret Manuscript on how to succeed at Fritz's court?
That must be it. After all, Marwitz happened in 1746, which meant both Voltaire/Ulrike (1743) and Trenck/Amalie had already happened, so the manuscript clearly was making the rounds.)
Am I missing anyone?
Not in Terms of "simultanously", but:
FW *post Ferdinand's birth*: Still has sexual urges.
SD: Post Fritz in Küstrin, no longer sleeping with FW.
FW: *hits on SD's Lady in waiting Johanna von Pannwitz via clumsy attempt to kiss her*
Johanna von Pannwitz: *slaps FW*
FW: I have been a bad Christian and will not do this again. Thank you for delivering me from temptation, God.
Johanna has a daughter named Sophie.
AW: *has many affairs*
AW: *spots new court Lady Sophie von Pannwitz and falls in love*
Sophie: I am a future diarist who will only confess to her Diary which is supposedly less fun than Lehndorff's but lasts right until the defeat of Napoleon that I do, in fact have feelings for you. More to the point, though, you're married, and I'm not intending to join your harem. Marriage or Nothing, your highness.
AW: Marriage! *asks Fritz for permission to divorce Louise*
Fritz: Nothing.
Sophie: Right. Then I'm marrying Count von Voß.
AW: *attends wedding but faints during same*
Fritz: In MY day, we only fainted when our beloved was killed in front of us, not married.
Sophie has a niece called Julie von Voß, who becomes lady-in-waiting to EC. (Which Sophie, outliving all Hohenzollern of her generation, also is at this point.)
FW2: Julie, you're hot!
Sophie: I'm seeing a possibility of saving the son of my secretly beloved AW from the claws of the commoner Wilhelmine Encke, as well as various one night stands. Julie, stay strong! Hold out for marriage!
Julie: Marriage or Nothing.
FW2: I'm kind of already married? Actually, I'm on my second wife, what with my first wife living in Stettin.
Second Mrs. FW2: Look, we've had seven kids by now. Several of which are sons. I'm seeing my royal duty as finished, plus you've grown kind of heavy. I'm giving you official permission to marry her morganatically.
Julie: Aunt Sophie, does that count?
Sophie: "Marriage at the left Hand", aka morganatic marriage is a legal finesse originally invented for royals who want to legitimize their Mistresses and kids from same without going through it officially. It means that once you die, your dead Body is a legitimate wife's Body, and your kids are all legitimate, not bastards. Otoh, while you live, you are not officially married to him and keep your old Name. The most prominent example of this was the Marquise de Maintenon, whom Louis XIV married morganatically.
Julie: So will I be morally in the clear?
Sophie: Only if you insist he stops fucking around. Literally. Especially the commoner Wilhelmine Encke.
Julie: FW2, I will be your morganatic wife if you stop fucking around!
FW2: *goes through ceremony with Julie in Charlottenburg*
Sophie: That could have been AW and me, if I'd thought of it then.
FW2: *actually stops fucking around, but keeps visiting Wilhelmine Encke; their sexual relationship had in fact already stopped pre Julie, but like Madame de Pompadour, she remained his closest confidant*
Julie: Does that count, Aunt Sophie?
Sophie: For God's sake. Try to to get pregnant, then asks him to send her away again.
Julie: *gets pregnant*
Julie: *dies of a combination of tuberculosis and childbirth*
FW2: *is heartbroken, and goes to the person who has been comforting him since he was twenty*
Wilhelmine Encke: *becomes Countess Lichtenau*
Sophie: Cruel Fate! Somehow I get the impression that morals don't pay.
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-20 06:47 pm (UTC)Fritz 'n Heinrich, simultanously: Why are you like this?
*spits out drink*
Break the cycle of abuse, Hohenzollerns! Anna Amalia managed it.
That must be it. After all, Marwitz happened in 1746, which meant both Voltaire/Ulrike (1743) and Trenck/Amalie had already happened, so the manuscript clearly was making the rounds.)
Exactly what I was thinking! Voltaire wouldn't waste any time on a thing like that.
SD: Post Fritz in Küstrin, no longer sleeping with FW.
Oh, man, I had missed the fact that the last kid was born a couple months before the escape attempt! I think I just went with "Wife is now 43, probably not especially fertile any more" and didn't think about how SD's all-time favorite kid has just been put through the worst abuse of his life. Wow.
FW: *hits on SD's Lady in waiting Johanna von Pannwitz via clumsy attempt
If this was after the escape attempt, I also completely missed the timing of "SD pissed off at FW; FW hits on lady-in-waiting."
I am a bad gossipy sensationalist. I can keep the Keiths and Rottembourgs straight, and that's about it. ;)
Fritz: In MY day, we only fainted when our beloved was killed in front of us, not married.
Oh, Fritz.
morganatic marriage is a legal finesse originally invented for royals who want to legitimize their Mistresses and kids from same without going through it officially. It means that once you die, your dead Body is a legitimate wife's Body, and your kids are all legitimate, not bastards. Otoh, while you live, you are not officially married to him and keep your old Name. The most prominent example of this was the Marquise de Maintenon, whom Louis XIV married morganatically.
My understanding is that one of the key points of a morganatic marriage is that the kids, while legitimate, are excluded from the succession.
Other possible example of a morganatic marriage: Elizaveta of Russia and Count Razumovsky, but I'm not sure where the most recent scholarship stands on the question of them being married. Back in my Russian history-studying days 20 years ago, my faint memories are that it was still an open question.
Tangentially...
Date: 2020-01-21 06:31 am (UTC)The hitting on the Lady in Waiting wasn't in the same year; according to Wilhelmine, it happened when everyone went to Braunschweig for the Fritz and EC wedding. I just rechecked (in the German edition, the bowlderized English edition doesn't seem to have it), and it will please you to learn that in fact, FW got not slapped, but punched.
Pannewitz had followed the Queen to Braunschweig for my brother's wedding; the King met her on a small stairway leading to the Queen's room. She wanted to leave, he stopped her and wanted to embrace her by putting a hand on her breast. In her indignation, this lady punched him so violently in the face that blood streamed from his mouth and nose. He did not hold it against her afterwards and limited himself to calling her "the bad fairy".
Now, it could of course simply be that Ferdinand was the last child because SD got menopausal or just not that fertile anymore, but I think the timing for this unprecedented attempt by Mr. "No Mistresses! No Whores!" (as an opening paragraph in his political testament, no less) to break his record of marital fidelity after all would indicate a good chance that SD had ended sexuals relations for good by then, and there is an obvious reason. (Also a later less obvious one, except if you're SD. She was thrilled Fritz was out of custody and reinstated, of course, but she still hated the Braunschweig marriage for her son.)
My understanding is that one of the key points of a morganatic marriage is that the kids, while legitimate, are excluded from the succession.
Oh absolutely. (This, btw, doesn't mean some of them didn't make a play for the throne afterwards anyway. Some even succeeded. Manfred, son of Frederick II. the HRE Emperor, managed to, but to be fair he did so only after his non-morganatic brothers had died and he was the olded surviving son.) But the legitimacy itself meant a lot, given the legal stain on bastards in most countries.
Re: Tangentially...
Date: 2020-01-21 05:14 pm (UTC)Oh, yes, I didn't mean that it was an immediate reaction; just that SD was going to be probably permanently 100% Done with FW after 1730. It would not surprise me if it was 3 years later that FW cracked under the pressure of sexual frustration.
Now, it could of course simply be that Ferdinand was the last child because SD got menopausal or just not that fertile anymore, but I think the timing for this unprecedented attempt by Mr. "No Mistresses! No Whores!" (as an opening paragraph in his political testament, no less) to break his record of marital fidelity after all would indicate a good chance that SD had ended sexuals relations for good by then, and there is an obvious reason.
Yes, this does make a surprising amount of sense.
(Also a later less obvious one, except if you're SD. She was thrilled Fritz was out of custody and reinstated, of course, but she still hated the Braunschweig marriage for her son.)
And the Bayreuth marriage for her daughter! The fact that she blamed Wilhelmine for giving in wouldn't prevent her from also blaming her hated husband.
Do we know if SD ever gave Fritz a hard time about his marriage, or did the fact that he was the favorite plus in prison/house arrest at the time get him off the hook? Favorite son can do no wrong?
This, btw, doesn't mean some of them didn't make a play for the throne afterwards anyway.
If being illegitimate or even total impostors didn't stop people from making a play for the throne, being the product of a morganatic marriage sure as hell wouldn't.
But the legitimacy itself meant a lot, given the legal stain on bastards in most countries.
Definitely. Huge plus.
Re: Tangentially...
Date: 2020-01-21 06:37 pm (UTC)Also, don't forget he'd make his unwillingness and lack of enthusiasm for the marriage very clear even after giving in, and the sheer awfulness of Küstrin plus preceding almost death certainly worked for her as an excuse. (With Wilhelmine, she'd convinced herself that if W had held out just a while longer, then FW would have given in, and W's life hadn't been at stake in the same way.) But yes, favorite son. And gender different treatment anyway. Fritz wasn't supposed to live the life SD should have had via marriage, Fritz was supposed to be a Wonderful King all of Europe was in awe of, and on this, he would certainly deliver.
Like I said elsehwere, I've come across exactly one remark by Fritz in the 1730s letters to Wilhelmine about SD being in a bad mood in tendem with FW and that if one made one happy, the other wasn't. Otherwise, nothing to indicate she ever gave him trouble. (It's also noticable that only the 1730s letters show him with some awareness that the SD-Wilhelmine relationship is less than stellar, because he's always giving her mood reports on both parents "The Queen loves you" or "The Queen now feels warm towards you again" as well as whatever the status quo of FW's take on Wilhelmine is. After he himself is on the throne, it's Best of All Possible Mothers all the way.
(To be fair, as stated elsewhere, she probably was her best self through the final one and a half decades of her life. No more FW, adoring oldest son to be proud of, younger sons also adoring her and making her proud, court treats her as the more important queen as per Fritz' orders, EC is so not a threat that that's ever going to change: she's living her ideal life and courtiers like Lehndorff rave about how dignified and gracious she is. It's only when you look at the daughters that there's a slight indication of maybe the SD who earlier was able to hand out "if you don't do as I say, you're dead to me" ultimatums isn't entirely gone, as on the crackier side in those arguments with Amalie where she ends up forbidding her kitchen to supply Amalie with food, and on the more serious side when she immediately goes after Wilhelmine for the MT lunch. )
Incidentally, that's another reason why it's good Fritz never got to see Wilhelmine's manuscript. It does contain the incredibly bitter sentence about SD not loving any of her children, just as much as they were of use to her in her struggle with FW. Of Course this is Wilhelmine writing in the 1740s (when she's in the outs with her mother again) about her mother in the early 1730s (remembering all those arguments and rants); it might be just as exaggarated as her trying to convince herself that Fritz gradually stopped loving her through the 30s and post Ascension to the throne had completed cutting himself off from her. But if you put it together with the big surviving siblings argument many years later and Amalie's clashes with her mother, you can make a case that SD simply was a different mother to her daughters than she was to her sons, and she was hardly unique in that regard.
How she'd have reacted to the big Fallout if she'd lived through 1757/58, God knows. Presumably she'd have sided with Fritz there, too, but maybe tried to plead for reconciliation?
Re: Tangentially...
Date: 2020-01-21 11:31 pm (UTC)Very true. No self-insert effect here. (No, that was Dad's job.)
she probably was her best self through the final one and a half decades of her life.
No doubt. If SD and EC had been able to swap husbands, I think all four of them would have been much happier people (possible gay husband issue aside), and the kids would have been much more traumatized.
Instead, FW forces Fritz to marry FW's ideal wife, and SD does her level best to force Wilhelmine to marry SD's ideal husband, because nobody is allowed to live their best lives here. Hohenzollerns. Hannovers. Sigh.
that's another reason why it's good Fritz never got to see Wilhelmine's manuscript
Fritz having to deal with the cognitive dissonance of Mom being a different mother to him and his one-soul-separate-bodies* sister is absolutely a thing that comes up in my reincarnation AU plotting. He spends a lot of time on it in therapy.
* Possibly a reference to the following quote attributed to Aristotle by Diogenes Laertius (though Diogenes was writing some 500 years later and not always good about his sources, that's never stopped anyone from using this quote or bypassing Diogenes and attributing it straight to Aristotle):
To the query "What is a friend?" his [Aristotle's] reply was, "A single soul dwelling in two bodies."
How she'd have reacted to the big Fallout if she'd lived through 1757/58
Chronology reminder for those who would benefit:
June 18, 1757: First major Fritz defeat, forcing the Prussian army to retreat out of Bohemia.
June 28, 1757: SD dies.
July 29, 1757: Fritz and AW fall out over how AW handled his part of the retreat.
Fritz: Possibly not in a good mental state in July of 1757. Possibly should not be allowed to talk to people.
And of course:
June 12, 1758: AW dies.
God knows. Presumably she'd have sided with Fritz there, too, but maybe tried to plead for reconciliation?
I was wondering about that. Have we talked about her relationship with AW? I remember her using the toddler to try to get the deserter's life spared, but oddly not much else.
Re: Tangentially...
Date: 2020-01-22 08:01 am (UTC)Yep. Relatedly, Wilhelmine biographer Uwe Oster thinks that one reason why she dragged out telling Fritz or anyone else why she wanted Marwitz (female) married and preferably gone was that SD (and Charlotte) had kept harping on the "beggar prince" she'd married during that home visit in 32/33, and she herself knew that Bayreuth was a tiny principality, nothing to write home about, but she could tell herself (and told the family during said disastrous visit)that at least she had a husband who loved her and was devoted to her, and that they were happy with each other. (As opposed to, err, most other Hohenzollern marriages, especially Mom's.) That they were happy together. Admitting Margrave/Marwitz was taking that away, so she keeps silent about it and instead insists that Marwitz continues to be her good friend and she's just deserving of a good husband (who happens to be Austrian) and of course that makes it all worse.
(I mean, I don't think Fritz would have been thrilled about a Prussian noble & Austrian marriage in any case, especially during war time, and would have taken offense, but presumably much less so if she's explained about the affair first?)
SD and AW: from I could gather, there's not much data there to say. I mean, what I learned from biographies and later letter references is:
1.) The story where she makes him plead for the deserter. Does involve the threat he'd get spanked with a rod if he doesn't do it, and the person explaining to little AW what "hanged" means when he asks isn't SD, so not great pedagogy there, but okay, a man's life is at stake.
2.) Pöllnitz' description, rendered in Fontane's Oranienburg chapter of the Wanderungen, and also in Ziebura's AW biography, about how after AW had gotten Oranienburg from Fritz and had it ready for reopening (remember, F1 palace shut down for decades during FW's time), he threw a three day party for his mother with all those baroque court masques and ceremonies and big fireworks spelling out her name at the end which FW would have hated and she adored. Biographies mention she enjoyed her time in Oranienburg so much that she kept going there each summer for a while for every year from this time onwards. (Biographies don't say whether AW also had to throw a party this big every year, but I wouldn't be surprised, because according to Lehndorff during the peace years parties and court masques etc. were a thing for the divine trio.
3.) AW's memorandum on how he'd distribute the budget money if he were King which he wrote when trying to make himself useful on economic matters at least since foreign policy was not an option contains the interesting factoid when it comes to budget for the royal family, in that he thinks the reigning Queen should get more money for her household than the Queen Mother. Now, as we know he wasn't any more in love with Louise than Fritz was with EC, but apparantly he did think that something was off there.
4.) When she's dead, AW's (as recorded in letters to Ferdinand) reaction is the same as the one from all the other Hohenzollern sibs - "we no longer have a mother", terrible blow, sadness, etc.". (When Lehndorff catches up with him in January/February 1758, he mentions they talk a bit about the late SD, too.) (Definitely a safer topic than the very much alive Fritz for Lehndorff to raise, I'd think.)
The problem is that from FW, we have all the letters to various tutors and stewards on how to raise the kid, we have little AW's letters to him (as we have little Wilhelmine's and Fritz'), and we have anecdotes from observers like the Pastor Freilinghausen who reports the "pleading for deserter" story or the envoys who mostly focus on FW (not least because all that indulgent cuddling and joking is such a contrast to you know what). If there are comparative letters from SD to the tutors, or from young AW to SD, then either they weren't archived or if they were the biographers haven't used them. You can only speculate based on what isn't there. For example, how come it takes older brother Fritz in the later 1730s to notice young AW is severely behind in his education and to encourage him that books are cool? I mean, it's obvious why FW doesn't mind, as long as AW likes playing with toy canons as a small child and succeeds in all the drilling he gets as a Hohenzollern prince later on, FW is happy and on the contrary thrilled that there's a son he doesn't have to worry about secretly getting himself educated in ways he doesn't approve of.
But the thing is, Ziebura notes that before he starts corresponding with Big Bro, it's notable AW's French vocabulary and spelling is way less certain than that of his siblings at a comparable age. (He then catches the improve yourself educationally bug, and works on it; it's not that he's more stupid than the rest, it's that his tutor, who probably was scared as hell of FW and had the example of Fritz' tutors in mind, didn't try to push his student to any kind of learning.) And that is something that SD should have noted and objected to, as a matter of pride as much as because of affection, what with French as the international court language and language of all "refined" people. (Later, she is down on her Braunschweig daughters in law precisely because they're not educated enough.)
Now perhaps she was simply worn out from the Fritz and Wilhelmine related battles with FW. But if Fritz via a long distance relationship manages to inspire his younger brother to grab a book or two and improve on his French letter writing by, well, letter writing, you'd think SD could have managed at closer range. So it's possible she basically was relieved here was one child who didn't cause any argument with her husband and made him happy, but it didn't make her feel close to the child in question, especially since while FW was alive she seems to have developed a siege mentality along with "you can only love one of us". (And AW definitely loved Dad back, because why wouldn't he?)
There is, of course, also the way all the boys were educated to consider. The girls remained with her longer, but the boys starting with age 4 got their own household, at by the time they are 12 were treated as junior members of the army complete with drills. So of course we have far more data on how the boys interacted with their father and/or each other. And all four never said a critical word about her and come across as venerating her all their lives. (Remember, when Heinrich during the last years of his life moves into Wusterhausen, he puts up a portrait of SD along with a portrait of AW in his bedroom.) So again, it's equally possible that SD was very fond of AW, and we just are lacking lost letters etc. to back that up in quotes.
Re: Tangentially...
Date: 2020-01-23 06:16 am (UTC)Arrrrgh! It doesn't have any of the good stuff!
and it will please you to learn that in fact, FW got not slapped, but punched.
Wow. That does please me. But wow.
but I think the timing for this unprecedented attempt by Mr. "No Mistresses! No Whores!" (as an opening paragraph in his political testament, no less) to break his record of marital fidelity after all would indicate a good chance that SD had ended sexuals relations for good by then, and there is an obvious reason.
Ohhhhhhh! *feels illuminated*
Re: Tangentially...
Date: 2020-01-26 12:41 am (UTC)Wow! Editor strikes again. The non-bowdlerized English version in the Fritzian library, though, has it: vol 1, p. 264.
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-23 06:20 am (UTC)So I'm reading all this at the same time as the Lehndorff/Fredersdorf comments, and I feel like the answer is obvious! --
Marwitz: I just want to say, none of this was my fault at all. When you're a page, it's not like anyone stops to tell you his name, you know? And there are a bunch of Hohenzollerns! I mean, there are like multiple princes and a King! At least Prince Ferdinand is quiet, so you can tell that one's him. But you get this short sarcastic guy who likes ordering people around and goes off on a moment's notice and, well. Can you really blame me for mixing up Prince Heinrich and King Friedrich a couple of times? I realized my mistake soon enough, of course, once we were in the bedroom. Heinrich was much more, mm, enthusiastic. Whereas King Fritz had me undress but didn't, you know, actually do anything. He watched me a lot and then kinda made a face and told me to put my clothes back on. Still not sure what was going on with that.
And yeah, there was that time that Voltaire came to visit and, well, he's pretty mouthy too. So to speak. What can I say, it's hard to keep all these mouthy guys straight. Or, well, you know.
Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-23 01:14 pm (UTC)Re: Toppings of all types, continued - the Curious Case of the Recurring Favourite
Date: 2020-01-26 04:02 am (UTC)hard to keep all these mouthy guys straight
Oblique attack tactics ain't exactly straight. :P