cahn | Frederick the Great, discussion post 6

...I think we need another one (seriously, you guys, this is THE BEST) and I'd better make it now before I disappear into the wilds of music performance.

(also, as of this week there are two Frederician fics in the yuletide archive and eeeeeeeeeee)
(huh, only one of them is actually tagged with Frederick the Great even though two with Maria Theresia and Wilhelmine, eeeeeee this is awesome I CAN'T WAIT)

Frederick the Great masterpost

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From:

mildred_of_midgard

(To recapitulate: Fritz, that week: wins battle, war Looks good for him, but...

Yeah, what struck me was that in his memoirs, Fritz said, "Well, we have to be philosophical on these occasions and not get worked up about bagatelles like that. The *important* thing is that I won." Which struck me both as how he wished he had reacted rather than how he reacted at the time, and also as him downplaying the significance of his losses for his audience.

It's worth mentioning he also lost a lot more than his dogs and flute, most notably the war chest that had been in camp. He got Eichel and the other civilians back, and Eichel had kept his head in a crisis and destroyed most of the important papers, like the cipher key, in all the chaos, before he was captured, but I've never heard of the Austrians returning the war chest, and somehow, I don't think they did.

Those are definite gems, especially the Protean one. I too wonder about the source on the second one. It's possible there was someone friendly to him in the audience who would never have defied a mob but might have recorded some details? Or this could just be apocryphal. History is mostly just making stuff up anyway, I've become convinced.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

On Fritz being dog-less and flute-less, I saw a coffee mug recently that read, "I drink coffee for your protection." Of course I thought of Fritz, but even more so when I saw that official in the Ekaterina show interrupt Fritz when he's playing the flute, and Fritz snaps at him and says never to do that again.

I thought, "Official dude, do you really want to interrupt your boss when he's doing the one thing that brings him any chill? He plays the flute for your protection!"

From:

selenak

Now that you've allowed me a first look at the Fredersdorf letters - he also writes "if you'd been there, nothing would have been taken, which, what? He can't mean Fredersdorf would have fought off Austrian Trenck and his Pandurs singlehandedly? Does he mean Fredersdorf would have managed to hide everything in time? Anyway. Definitely upset.

re: description of Trenck's trial and death in Paris, yes; I mean, we have such detailed descriptions of the trials of Marie Antoinette, Danton, etc., not just through memoirs later but because revolutionary France did have newspapers - notably, though not exclusively, the Moniteur - reporting on them. But these were all cases of people famous in France. Trenck had achieved a certain celebrity status via his memoirs, and certainly enough of it so Dumas a generation later can reference him by name and expect his readers to get the allusion without having to explain who Trenck was. But was this the case in 1794 Paris? If so, then the papers might actually have reported on his trial instead of seeing it as "German nobleman X, Austrian spy". I just wish the editor would have said where he has the story from.

(Another thing - given Trenck by then was a married father and grandfather, one would expect him to have the picture of his wife with him, not from a long ago Very High Ranking Lady. Plus I doubt anyone close enough to have a look knew what Amalie looked like. Otoh, who knows, given everyone else's track records with their wives in terms of affection, and he certainly had the romantic temperament for a gesture like this.)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Now that you've allowed me a first look at the Fredersdorf letters - he also writes "if you'd been there, nothing would have been taken, which, what?

Yes! That letter's on Trier, and I saw that back when I was first researching Soor, and also wondered what he meant!

I thiiink, if I'm remembering correctly, but of course I can't remember where I read it, that the camp was supposed to be packed up and on the move by the time the Hungarians arrived, but it was only half ready, and therefore quite vulnerable. Maybe Fritz has confidence in Fredersdorf's efficiency and the fact that things would have been better organized with him around? Who knows.

I do like to imagine Fredersdorf reading this and WTFing, though. :P But if it could be solved with organization, he could solve it.

Oh, I remember where I read the idea that only half the camp had been packed up. It was in Fritz's memoirs. Yep, there it is. Okay, so maybe that's what Fritz is thinking.

[ETA: Regardless of what he was thinking, though, it's a very touching expression of confidence in his right-hand man.]

This was definitely a letter written by an upset and less-than-philosophical man, though.

It's also funny how he writes, "So-and-so is incompetent; *I*'m busy and can't be expected to handle everything." Have you heard of the fundamental attribution error, Fritz? (I mean, I've worked with enough incompetent people to know there's a chance he was right, but maaaaybe we've got more Fritz scapegoating going on here.)

I just wish the editor would have said where he has the story from.

I always wish that.

Edited Date: 2019-12-08 08:29 am (UTC)

From:

selenak

Forgot to include this in my other comments, but: we have yet another explanation of why Algarotti leaves Prussia (other than Fritz/Voltaire Implosion, micro-Managing boss and not wanting to become the next Marwitz). Fredersdorf Letters Editor thinks Algarotti left because he couldn't score with the dancer Barbarina, the famous "Ballerina of Sanssouci". Unrequited love sent him away!

(Have I mentioned yet that this Editor is very much of the NO HOMO ANYWHERE IN FREDERICIAN PRUSSIA!!!! persuasion?)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

other than Fritz/Voltaire Implosion, micro-Managing boss and not wanting to become the next Marwitz

And let's not forget the official tuberculosis reason!

I feel like I had seen that explanation before, though I can't remember where. Catt again?

Oh, yes, here we are. It's not quite an explanation of the scuttling away to Italy, but Fritz is talking to Catt: "[Algarotti] proved to have a sordid interest in an affair of the heart and an engagement he had with la Barbarini [sic]."

So I doubt she was the reason he left, but that just confirms my impression that Algarotti is *extremely bi*, and both the "NO HOMO ANYWHERE" and the "GAY GAY AND DID I MENTION GAY" biographers are wrong. For verily, bi people exist.

Oh, man, I was checking Barbarina's Wikipedia article, because I keep seeing her name show up, usually in the context of "Fritz totally had an affair with her," and wow.

So first of all, there's this.

There were speculations that she had an affair with King Frederick (though the king was reputed to be misogynic)

Um. I don't think that's the obstacle here, wiki editors. Heterosexual men have been misogynistic for time out of mind. But nice try.

as well as many other persons.

Everyone wants Barbarina. Everyone wants Algarotti. It would be more surprising if they *didn't* have an affair. :P

But then there's THIS, aka today's installment of gossipy sensationalism, which I cobbled together from English, German, and Italian Wikipedia.

Barbarina: *is having sex with her royal patron*

Barbarina: *has sex with someone else*

Royal patron: *catches them*

Big scandal: *ensues*

Barbarina: Oops! Guess I'll sneak out of Paris before that catches up with me.

Royal patron: No, no! It's cool, you're cool. Just come back and keep dancing and sleeping with me. Here's some money and a promise of total freedom.

Barbarina: Well, that worked out! Royal patrons are very chill, gotcha.

Fast forward to 1743...

Barbarina: *accepts a contract to go to Berlin and work for Fritz*

Barbarina: Changed my mind! I'm going to elope to Venice instead with my bf James Stuart-Mackenzie and get married. The marriage totally nullifies any contract I had with Fritz, and I am now off scot-free.

Fritz: Not so fast, young lady. Republic of Venice, you know what to do.

Venetian officials: Well, you know, we'd love to, but...uh, we may have heard things about working for you, and, well, we'll think about it.

All of Europe: Fritz the soon-to-be-Great vs the most famous dancer in Europe. What do?

Prussia: *saber-rattling*

Jean-Jacques Rousseau to Barbarina, on behalf of France: You should totally keep your word to France's BFF Fritz, just like we trust Fritz to always keep his word. [Chronology note: Fritz will abandon his alliance with the French in just 2 years.]

Barbarina: I'm not sure why I found his recent pamphlet on keeping your word so unconvincing, but nope. Nothing doing.

Spain: You're sure? He kind of has an army and is starting to demonstrate that he knows how to use it.

Barbarina: Is MT sure? Is the Pope Catholic? Yes, I'm sure. It's true love, and I'm staying with my boyfriend. Who is totally my husband, in case you were wondering, MT.

Hungary: Well, you're technically a subject of MT, so I guess she should have a say in this. [Wikipedia is not clear on whose side she's taking here, the contract-breaking whore or the contract-breaking evil man in Potsdam, but I'm sure that was interesting.]

England: Don't look at me, boyfriend/husband James Stuart-Mackenzie. Marrying a dancer is way beneath you. Also, it's 1743, and your name sounds suspiciously Jacobite, at least to Mildred who is always on the alert for such things. (

cahn, the biggest of the Jacobite rebellions is about to break out in 1745.)

Fritz: Oh, hey, look! It's the Venetian ambassador passing through my territory on his way back from London. I can settle this all right now.

Fritz: *seizes the baggage of the ambassador, looks smugly in the direction of Venice*

Venice: *sigh*

Venice: *hands Barbarina over to Fritz*

Barbarina: Wow, that was less chill than I was expecting, but I'm sure it's just because my new patron wants me as bad as my last one did, and I'm sure it means he'll let me do whatever I want now that I'm here.

Barbarina: High starting salary with the possibility of a raise?

Fritz: Well, I guess after pissing off Venice like that after having just pissed off Austria, I have to follow through on actually wanting you.

Barbarina: Generous vacation package?

Fritz: I don't know how you and Schmeling talk me into these things, but fine. ONLY if you don't get married, though. Yes, I want that in writing.

Barbarina: Sweet! New royal patron is chill after all. Affair with my royal patron?

Historians: *debate*

Contemporaries and historians: *observe that she has masculine legs from all the dancing* [ETA: Apparently this was good old Voltaire throwing more shade at Fritz. Voltaire always delivers.]

Fritz: *refuses to confirm or deny*

Debate: *continues*

Meanwhile, in 1749:

Cocceji, son of Prussian official: Barbarina, I love you! Will you accept my marriage proposal on the open stage?

Barbarina: Experience has taught me that I can get away with murder, so yes! I accept your Fritz-contract-violating proposal on the open stage.

Barbarina: Hey, Fritz. I want to go to London with my lover. How about it? [I kid you not. Wikipedia says she asked Fritz for permission to go to London after accepting a contract-violating proposal on the open stage.]

Fritz: You have a contract, missy. Cocceji, that's prison for you.

Barbarina: *escapes to London* [Someone made it!]

Fritz: *pardons Cocceji like a good enlightened monarch and lets Barbarina come back, thus proving she can get away with murder*

Barbarina: *promptly marries Cocceji in secret*

Fritz: OMFG. You give them an inch and they take a mile. Okay, watch this. I'm going to be nice and make you governor, Cocceji...of a city way out in the middle of nowhere in Silesia, far from that Hollywood lifestyle your wife is used to living.

Cocceji: *is authoritarian and unfaithful*

Barbarina and Cocceji: *separate after only a few years, eventually get divorced*

Fritz: Marwitz, Mara, Ulrika, Cocceji...I'm telling you people, when I don't want you to do something, it's for your own good. It's always for your own good. Lehndorff, you'll thank me for this in 1756.

Lehndorff: NEVER. But, see, Peter, this is why you can't go helping people elope to England with their lovers. He doesn't like it.

Fritz: Katte was TOTALLY faithful, that's different. Peter, here's your annual bonus and a nice letter. ILU. <3

ETA:

Barbarina marriage scandal: 1749
Algarotti leaves Prussia: 1753

While I'm sure he was interested in her, if Fritz says so, I'm less than convinced that's why he left Prussia. Four years after her marriage. While she was, if I'm right, living in Silesia.

(Lady Mary: Tell me more about how terrible unrequited love is, Algarotti.)

ETA 2: Oh, for the sake of entertainment and drawing parallels, I'm deliberately having Fritz refer to things that happen in the future. We'll just assume he has a crystal ball.

Edited Date: 2019-12-09 04:48 am (UTC)

From:

selenak

You win at sensationalist gossip! So does Barbararina. Wow. Google tells me that Friederisiko, aka the exhibition of which you have a catalogue, had one of her shoes. It also caused this article about her, which has a bit more like the description of her in Pygmalion (she was Galatea, of course), and the Voltaire quote: "The King was a bit in love with her, since she had legs like a man. The only incomprehensible thing was that he paid her a salary of 52 000 Lives. His Italian poet only received a salary of 12 000 Livres; but you must consider he was ugly, and couldn't dance. In short, Barbarina all on her lonesome received more than three Prussian cabinet ministers put together."

(Which Italian poet, Mildred?)

Lehndorff in 1750 catches the tail end stories and reports on them, but he's... distracted.

September 1st. (...)Cocceji, the son of the grand chancellor, goes to Silesia; against his will, he's been made President of Glogau. His father can't forgive him having married La Barbarina, and thus he plays such tricks on his son. (...)There are several dinners with the princes. (...) I spend some very pleasant evenings alone with Prince Heinrich. My God, how charming the Prince is under these circumstances! I would always like to visit him under these term!

(Also Lehndorff, which I've remembered apropos James Stuart-Mackenzie: *reads a history of the Stuarts* Wow, the Stuarts are such a WEIRD royal family. Must be the weirdest royal family ever. Do you get the Stuarts? I don't get the Stuarts. Frist they fuck around and then they keep losing their throne for some old fashioned religion they don't even believe in.)

(Ghost of James II: Slander. I am the most faithful son of the Catholic Church there ever was!)

Back to Barbarina: I guess everything was beautiful at the ballet? And anyway, what kind of gay man would Fritz have been if he didn't have a soft spot for ballet and ballet dancers? I'm just surprised no one threw shade at him for all that boasting about being the sole monarch in Europe to keep it in his pants and not spend money on favourites. No one other than Voltaire, that is.

Does Lady Mary mention ballet in her letters?

Edited Date: 2019-12-09 07:18 am (UTC)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

You win at sensationalist gossip! So does Barbararina.

She kinda does!

(Which Italian poet, Mildred?)

If it's not Algarotti (whom no one else considered ugly, but, you know, it's Voltaire), I don't know off the top of my head. I see Maupertuis was offered a pension of 12,000 livres, so it's possibly Algarotti, but I'd have to dig, and it's my bedtime. If I find out, you know you'll be the first to know. :)

September 1st. (...)Cocceji, the son of the grand chancellor, goes to Silesia; against his will, he's been made President of Glogau. His father can't forgive him having married La Barbarina, and thus he plays such tricks on his son. (...)There are several dinners with the princes. (...) I spend some very pleasant evenings alone with Prince Heinrich. My God, how charming the Prince is under these circumstances! I would always like to visit him under these term!

LOL, Lehndorff is nothing if not consistent! I admire your focus (Hotham notwithstanding).

(Also Lehndorff, which I've remembered apropos James Stuart-Mackenzie:

Just to be historically accurate: I have Jacobites more or less permanently on the brain, but just because your last name is Stuart-Mackenzie and your parents named you James and it's 1743 doesn't mean you're necessarily a suspected Jacobite. (If your parents named you James Francis Edward, that's a different matter.)

Wow, the Stuarts are such a WEIRD royal family. Must be the weirdest royal family ever. Do you get the Stuarts? I don't get the Stuarts. Frist they fuck around and then they keep losing their throne for some old fashioned religion they don't even believe in.)

They are pretty darn weird. Personally, I find them less exciting as individuals than the Hohenzollerns, though as a family they definitely had a topsy-turvy history.

But the Hohenzollerns are NORMAL, and everything they do is NORMAL, and ADMIRABLE, and why can't all the other princes be more like them?

(Ghost of James II: Slander. I am the most faithful son of the Catholic Church there ever was!)

You, maybe. Your grandson Cardinal Henry Benedict, def. Your grandson Charles Edward, not so much. (What year is Lehndorff reading the history? Before or after the '45?)

Does Lady Mary mention ballet in her letters?

She might? I only have a library copy whose spine I cannot bend, fold, spindle, or mutilate, so cannot check. I don't remember it from her letters to Algarotti, if that's what you're asking. She agrees with AW on hunting, though!

After the end of a long rant on inhumanity of same: "If I were inclined to write, I would compose an epistle in the name of all the animals to the greatest Warrior of the Century, to encourage him to the Slaughter of these Tyrants, who imagine themselves privileged to exercise the most enormous cruelty."

Well, Lady Mary, your recipient's boss (or boss until recently):
- arguably the greatest Warrior of the Century,
- agrees with you on hunting,
- currently (Feb 1757) engaged in the slaughter of hundreds of thousands,
- most of whom probably imagine themselves privileged to exercise that most enormous cruelty of which you write!

...Somehow I don't think that's what she meant.

From:

selenak

Barbarina: it's a shame that final guy turned out to be a less than stellar choice (seriously, Fritz actually turns out to have a good instinct for lousy husbands/boyfriends - all accidents due to his Control issues, or character insight?) , but other than that, she seems to have lived the unapologetic life of a rococo superstar on her terms - good for her!

Lehndorff is nothing if not consistent! I admire your focus (Hotham notwithstanding).

Given that Heinrich keeps changing boyfriends, Lehndorff is allowed one alternate True Love. Incidentally, note that 1906!Editor does not try to sell us Lehndorff's feelings for his prince or for Dearest Hotham as paternal/filial/fraternal/family relationship of choice. He doesn't classify them at all, he just apologizes and explains the general Rokoko emo and waterworks. Otherwise, he even says in the summaries stuff like "and then he was delighted to see his beloved Prince Heinrich again". I have no idea what 1926!Editor would have made of Lehndorff. Or Heinrich. Also, I can't help but seeing a backwards development here. Theodor Fontane in the late 19th century, with the Oscar Wilde trial still to come, has no problem referring to Heinrich's last boyfriend as "a relationship of the heart" and not mentioning the word "fatherly" even once, despite an age gap which actually would have fit with that for his readers.

Stuarts: Lehndorff is reading the history in the early 1750s, so definitely after. And yes, finding the Stuarts weird when you're surrounded by Hohenzollerns whom you fanboy as royalty role models is so breathtakingly... something... that I just had to share. Incidentally, the current head of the Stuarts through the Jacobite line is... drumroll... none other than the current head of the House of Wittelsbach, Franz von Bayern. Wittelsbachs: smugly: Not only are we better at survival than the Hohenzollern, we also still own our castles. And those we don't any more, we got paid handsomely for. Also? We know which claims to pursue and which to leave for folk dancing opportunities.

(Seriously though, Franz spent some time in a concentration camp as a child because the Wittelsbachs, as opposed to Willy's kids, really were anti Nazi. A plus guy, Franz. Jacobites could do worse.)

As for me, the only of the classic Stuarts I really like is Charles II., but that generation and the one before and after certainly is screwed up enough that we could, post Yuletide, hold a very special Stuarts session. Given The Favourite has made Anne as the last Stuart Queen reappear on people's radar again, who knows who might join?

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Barbarina: it's a shame that final guy turned out to be a less than stellar choice (seriously, Fritz actually turns out to have a good instinct for lousy husbands/boyfriends - all accidents due to his Control issues, or character insight?)

From the guy who thought living with Voltaire was an A+ idea? Well, I don't know, it's not uncommon for it to be easier to spot the mote in someone else's eye than the beam in yours. And we have no data on Hotham, of course. But aside from Voltaire, and some non-serious pretty boys he liked to look at (Trenck, Glosow), Fritz's choices for relationships of the heart that I can think of, seem to have been pretty solid choices: Keith, Katte, Fredersdorf, Algarotti. He was not necessarily good at holding up his end, but I would approve any of them for him as a boyfriend/husband (though not necessarily him for them).

Of course, if Voltaire had been interested in marrying Fritz, he would have eloped with him in a heartbeat, so...no one's perfect.

As for how clearly he saw the problems in other people's relationships, I really can't say. Too many control issues, and Occam's razor and all that.

Given that Heinrich keeps changing boyfriends, Lehndorff is allowed one alternate True Love.

Indeed! I'm very far from criticizing him. Just teasing him a little about what you told me was the very abrupt rebound boyfriend he was ready to emigrate for. Heck, maybe emigrating and getting *away* from the yo-yoing of his emotions re Heinrich was a major draw. :(

the current head of the Stuarts through the Jacobite line is... drumroll... none other than the current head of the House of Wittelsbach, Franz von Bayern.

Hahaha, yup. The Stuart line got saner with time?

Franz spent some time in a concentration camp as a child because the Wittelsbachs, as opposed to Willy's kids, really were anti Nazi.

That part I didn't know. Good for them. (I mean, sucks to be them in the 1940s, but good for them.)

As for me, the only of the classic Stuarts I really like is Charles II

He's definitely best of breed.

we could, post Yuletide, hold a very special Stuarts session. Given The Favourite has made Anne as the last Stuart Queen reappear on people's radar again, who knows who might join?

Very true! I've only heard of this in the last few days, by way of my wife, who actually watches things. She really liked it. So yes, maybe we'll attract some new people for that session. Plus YT had some James VI/I slashing nominations and at least one request I remember seeing, so maybe we'll gain some traction there.

I admit to largely skipping 17th century history, so I assume I know more than

cahn and significantly less than you about the Stuarts who were actual reigning British monarchs, and honestly, you've probably kept your Scottish monarch knowledge fresher than mine. Meanwhile, I've forgotten more than most people ever knew about the '45 and gotten rid of all my books long ago, but I'm sure I can still hold up my end of the conversation with what's left, and the internet will help jog my memory. It'll be fun! And even tangentially related to Fritz, defender of the Protestant faith and employer of Jacobite ambassadors to Versailles (A+ trolling there, as always, Fritz).

Edited Date: 2019-12-09 09:05 pm (UTC)

From:

selenak

From the guy who thought living with Voltaire was an A+ idea?

You do have a point. In his defense, he hadn't met Voltaire in person before inviting him? Then again, as you say, he probably would have eloped with him later, too, so. Good point about the other serious relationships, too. He certainly shows a better taste in choosing for himself there than Heinrich (mostly).

Alas, google brought me nothing about Hotham Jr. in terms of what he was like, so he could have been anyone between Mr. Perfect and soemone Lehndorff was better off without. Can't help but notice, in any event, that he never came back for Lehndorff. And he hadn't been banished from Prussia, he could have. Perhaps not during the Seven-Years-War, though Britain was an ally, but later? Then again, it was four months. Hotham Jr. could have been a great guy and still be forgiven for not clinging to a four-months love affair years later.

There's also the question as to how much Fritz noticed about Lehndorff anyway. In what I've read, Lehndorff doesn't report a single one on one conversation, which I'm sure he would have if they'd ever had one, or at least he'd have written something like "the King graciously singled me out for conversation". Given the sheer amount of time Lehndorff spent hanging out with the younger brothers, he must have registered at least as something a bit more than "EC's chamberlain", but not much more.

Now, given that when Hotham arrives on the scene, Lehndorff is in a "Heinrich who?" mood and all "ignoring you now, see if I care, here's my new love!", I'm not surprised he didn't ask Heinrich to intercede for him with the King, but it's interesting he doesn't ask AW, either, and AW is the sole royal brother he's consistently on good terms with. So why not ask the Crown Prince to plead on your behalf with the King? Especially since even royal siblings (Ulrike, Wilhelmine during the three years of estrangement) ask AW for mediation, and that's his role in the family from toddlerdom on - when SD & Co. used him to ask FW for favours - until the Seven Years War; he's not likely to refuse without good reason, especially if he likes someone, and he did like Lehndorff. (If the direct German quotes from his last year of life are anything to go by, he called him "Lehndorfchen", i.e. the endearment form.)

Tentative speculation: as much as Lehndorff was in love with Hotham, maybe a part of him didn't want to go and thus subconsicously was holding him back?

From:

mildred_of_midgard

From:

selenak - Date: 2019-12-18 07:31 am (UTC) - Expand

From:

cahn

we could, post Yuletide, hold a very special Stuarts session.

Yes please! Stuarts are one of those parts of British history that I don't know anything about. And I have heard good things about The Favourite that made me want to watch it -- wait, that was your review :P :) (I haven't watched it yet, of course.)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

I myself would not mind getting a crash course in the 17th century Stuarts. I know the rough outlines and some surprisingly specific details, but I'm willing to bet most of it is new to me, or will ring a faint bell at best.

Stuarts related preparation links

From:

selenak - Date: 2019-12-10 11:21 am (UTC) - Expand

Re: Stuarts related preparation links

From:

cahn - Date: 2019-12-16 10:39 pm (UTC) - Expand

From:

mildred_of_midgard

but other than that, she seems to have lived the unapologetic life of a rococo superstar on her terms - good for her!

I meant to say: yes, she did, and good for her!

From:

cahn

AHAHAHA Thank you for that Voltaire quote! omg Voltaire, you're the best (at throwing shade).

I continue to find Lehndorff adorable! Though distractible :P

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Who needs other people to throw shade when you've got Voltaire? He's got it covered!

From:

mildred_of_midgard

(Which Italian poet, Mildred?)

Current evidence points toward Giampetro Tagliazucchi. I found Voltaire's quote in full, and it included a little extra identifying information, namely "His Italian poet, who was obliged to put the operas into verse, of which the King himself gave the plan had little more than a thirtieth part of this sum." So I went and asked Wikipedia who wrote the Italian libretto for Montezuma, and it was Tagliazucchi. I wasn't able to find much more on him; even Italian Wiki doesn't have an entry.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

No sooner do I say that than I continue reading, and Voltaire never fails to deliver the gossip aka shade-throwing.

"As for the Italian poet, he one day took care to pay himself with his own hands, for he stript off the gold from the ornaments in an old chapel of the first King of Prussia's; on which occasion Frederick remarked, that as he never went to the chapel he had lost nothing. Besides, he had lately written a dissertation in favour of thieves, which is printed in the collections of his academy; and he did not think proper this time to contradict his writings by his actions."

"This time" aka unlike with the Anti-Machiavel, obviously.

Ouch.

(I'm currently reading Voltaire's memoirs and taking notes. Sensationalist gossip coming soon.)

From:

selenak

You win at detecting. Well, if Tagliazucchi didn't even make it into Italian wiki, I assume he wasn't much of a poet. Whereas Barbarina was much of a dancer, so the difference in salary seems amply justified. :)

(I also admit I find it not a little satisfying that she and Schmeling-Mara were able to negotiate such top salaries out of frugal Fritz the misogynist. Go girls!)

Looking forward to your take on the memoirs, listed, of course, by 1926 Editor among the "few hints on the King's path of suffering" that was the Fritz/Voltaire relationship in Editor's eyes. "Leidensweg" will never fail to crack me up as a description, I must admit.

(Ziebura in her description of Mirabeau coming to Prussia, hitting it off with Heinrich (so Heinrich thinks) and returning to France to write a trashy bestseller declaring the entire Hohenzollern clan, including Heinrich, rubbish, was no less partisan, but she put it as "cheap homophobic slander", being a 21st century writer. As Heinrich had liked Mirabeau but hadn't been into him on a Fritz/Voltaire level, we didn't get a tempestous aftermath out of it, either, not even a letter-long rant, just a fatalistic "c'est la vie" shrugging. Heinrich: reserving all the obsessiveness for Big Bro.)

From:

mildred_of_midgard

(I also admit I find it not a little satisfying that she and Schmeling-Mara were able to negotiate such top salaries out of frugal Fritz the misogynist. Go girls!)

Indeed! And both ended up trying to flee to London with their lovers/husbands, said husband being arrested, and eventually the Maras make it to Prague. I have this quote re the successful Mara escape:

"In 1780 she fell ill, but Frederick refused to allow her to go to a Bohemian spa for a cure. 'But now I began to feel the weight of slavery,' she wrote in her autobiography. 'Not only was I having to bury my fame and fortune with him [Frederick] but also now my health,' so this time she and her husband planned their flight carefully. Describing her emotions on waking up for the first time in the safety of Bohemia, she wrote: 'A magnificent morning awaited my awakening, there was a lawn in front of the house, so I had my tea served there and felt completely happy— O Liberté!'"

"Leidensweg" will never fail to crack me up as a description, I must admit.

Indeed! The Passion of Fritz.

You know, for not having an army at your disposal, Editor, you're doing quite well in the life-or-death fanboying competition with Peter III.

Heinrich: reserving all the obsessiveness for Big Bro.

Yeah, Heinrich/Fritz and Fritz/Voltaire have a lot in common.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Or it could be Leopoldo di Villati, who did the libretti for some of Fritz's and Graun's other operas. All I can find on him is that he died in Berlin in 1752, which is just right for Voltaire to have an anecdote or two about him.

Voltaire, you and Lehndorff need to give us *names* if you're going to give us gossip!

From:

cahn

Real-life crackfic of the day! :D This is, as usual, amazing. How does there keep being MORE drama????

It's true love, and I'm staying with my boyfriend. Who is totally my husband, in case you were wondering, MT.

OK, sorry, I think I missed something here?

From:

mildred_of_midgard

For once, *I* got to provide the daily crackfic! :D

OK, sorry, I think I missed something here?

Sorry, just that Wikipedia (I'm working from Google Translate of multiple very incomplete articles here) said she kept *insisting* she was married, which made me wonder if she actually wasn't, especially considering her later marriage without any mention of a divorce that I can remember. And also, of course, MT, with her well-known opinions on extramarital sex, is going to want to hear that she is married. (As noted, what MT actually thought of this episode is not recorded in any of the wiki pages I saw, which is a real pity.)

Edited Date: 2019-12-10 09:50 am (UTC)