Opera for Beginners (Part 3 of 3)
Aug. 6th, 2019 09:31 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
cahnI talked about Opera for Beginners for my family reunion talk and used much of the advice I was given here, thank you! :)
-I brought speakers, because there isn't much use in giving an opera talk if you can't hear the music! The hilarious thing was that I was not the only one who had audio/audiovisual components to my presentation, but I was the only one who had brought speakers. I had been a little bitter about lugging them all around Montana, but less so when they turned out to be broadly useful :) What was more irritating was that after they worked fine when I tried them out in my office, they didn't work at all for a while when I was trying to give the talk. Finally my cousin's teenager, who was acting as unofficial tech support, suggested rebooting as a last resort, and of course that worked. Sigh.
-A couple of people mentioned talking about where one might go looking for opera. My biggest recommendations to a newbie are the following:
1.The Chandos Opera in English CDs, without which I would still hate opera today. I highly highly recommend all the Mozart ones, particularly the da Ponte operas (Marriage of Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi fan tutte), and the bel canto comedies (e.g., Barber of Seville, The Elixir of Love), and dis-recommend their Verdi except Don Carlos (for some reason Verdi tends to come out a bit muddled). Their French opera also seems to be very good, and I absolutely adore their Eugene Onegin (which stars Thomas Hampson and Kiri te Kanawa).
2. Met On Demand, which comes with a free 7-day trial. People who know a lot about opera rag on the Met for not being adventurous in its staging and concept, which, fair, but for a beginner, in my opinion, that's exactly what you want, and you can't do better than the Met for gorgeous staging and costumes, great singers, and great videography, which I didn't even know would affect me until I started watching a bunch of these... and... it does actually make a huge difference when watching video. (Watching live is, of course, different.)
-I showed several clips, one of which was a 3-minute clip of Kaufmann/Hampson/Salminen in the auto-da-fe scene from Don Carlo. (Alagna/Keenlyside/Furlanetto is still the whole version of Don Carlo I would recommend, but for auto-da-fe out of context I thought the former was better, not least because it didn't have a giant weeping Jesus in the background.) I explained beforehand the background about how Posa is Prince Carlo's best friend but also has the relationship where he has sworn fealty to King Philip. (I have uploaded the clip here (google drive video clip, ~3 minutes) --mildredofmidgard, I know music/opera is Not Your Thing but this is the moment in Don Carlo I was talking about, check it out) and my big triumph, as far as I am concerned, is that when the clip ended my cousin cried out, "Oh, that's so sad!" MY WORK HERE IS DONE.
-My other great triumph was that E was curious about what I said about Don Giovanni. Being her, she could not care less about Don G himself -- she was perfectly content with a limited understanding that he was the Bad Guy -- but she was particularly interested in what I said about Don G coming to a sticky end, and asked about it the next day. Once I further explained that there was a singing statue and that in many productions Don G disappeared into flames with the statue at the end, both she and A really wanted to watch it, so that afternoon we all snuggled up on the couch and watched "Don Giovanni, a cenar teco" (this one with Rodney Gilfrey) and they still ask for "the statue opera" on occasion. (That's the only part they have watched or are interested in watching, or that I am interested in playing for them, until they're a lot older. Well, okay, "O statua gentilissima," but that's along the same lines.)
-Since you guys said it was fun for people to recognize music in opera, another short clip I showed was from Thais, because, well, I don't know if it's all Koreans or just my particular family, but all our extended relatives LOOOOOVE Meditation from Thais and all of us cousins who play violin (or piano, if that cousin happened to be near one of the cousins who played violin) have had to play that song approximately six million times, every time a third cousin twice removed came to visit. There was much groaning when the melody was revealed :)
-It turns out my aunt (uncle's wife) really likes opera!!!! We are already making plans to go to Salzburg or Italy sometime and watch opera :D (well, pipe dreams right now... I certainly wouldn't go until my kids are older)
(Part 1 was where I asked for help; Part 2 was an outtake of this post about emoting in opera)
-I brought speakers, because there isn't much use in giving an opera talk if you can't hear the music! The hilarious thing was that I was not the only one who had audio/audiovisual components to my presentation, but I was the only one who had brought speakers. I had been a little bitter about lugging them all around Montana, but less so when they turned out to be broadly useful :) What was more irritating was that after they worked fine when I tried them out in my office, they didn't work at all for a while when I was trying to give the talk. Finally my cousin's teenager, who was acting as unofficial tech support, suggested rebooting as a last resort, and of course that worked. Sigh.
-A couple of people mentioned talking about where one might go looking for opera. My biggest recommendations to a newbie are the following:
1.The Chandos Opera in English CDs, without which I would still hate opera today. I highly highly recommend all the Mozart ones, particularly the da Ponte operas (Marriage of Figaro, Don Giovanni, Cosi fan tutte), and the bel canto comedies (e.g., Barber of Seville, The Elixir of Love), and dis-recommend their Verdi except Don Carlos (for some reason Verdi tends to come out a bit muddled). Their French opera also seems to be very good, and I absolutely adore their Eugene Onegin (which stars Thomas Hampson and Kiri te Kanawa).
2. Met On Demand, which comes with a free 7-day trial. People who know a lot about opera rag on the Met for not being adventurous in its staging and concept, which, fair, but for a beginner, in my opinion, that's exactly what you want, and you can't do better than the Met for gorgeous staging and costumes, great singers, and great videography, which I didn't even know would affect me until I started watching a bunch of these... and... it does actually make a huge difference when watching video. (Watching live is, of course, different.)
-I showed several clips, one of which was a 3-minute clip of Kaufmann/Hampson/Salminen in the auto-da-fe scene from Don Carlo. (Alagna/Keenlyside/Furlanetto is still the whole version of Don Carlo I would recommend, but for auto-da-fe out of context I thought the former was better, not least because it didn't have a giant weeping Jesus in the background.) I explained beforehand the background about how Posa is Prince Carlo's best friend but also has the relationship where he has sworn fealty to King Philip. (I have uploaded the clip here (google drive video clip, ~3 minutes) --
mildredofmidgard, I know music/opera is Not Your Thing but this is the moment in Don Carlo I was talking about, check it out) and my big triumph, as far as I am concerned, is that when the clip ended my cousin cried out, "Oh, that's so sad!" MY WORK HERE IS DONE.-My other great triumph was that E was curious about what I said about Don Giovanni. Being her, she could not care less about Don G himself -- she was perfectly content with a limited understanding that he was the Bad Guy -- but she was particularly interested in what I said about Don G coming to a sticky end, and asked about it the next day. Once I further explained that there was a singing statue and that in many productions Don G disappeared into flames with the statue at the end, both she and A really wanted to watch it, so that afternoon we all snuggled up on the couch and watched "Don Giovanni, a cenar teco" (this one with Rodney Gilfrey) and they still ask for "the statue opera" on occasion. (That's the only part they have watched or are interested in watching, or that I am interested in playing for them, until they're a lot older. Well, okay, "O statua gentilissima," but that's along the same lines.)
-Since you guys said it was fun for people to recognize music in opera, another short clip I showed was from Thais, because, well, I don't know if it's all Koreans or just my particular family, but all our extended relatives LOOOOOVE Meditation from Thais and all of us cousins who play violin (or piano, if that cousin happened to be near one of the cousins who played violin) have had to play that song approximately six million times, every time a third cousin twice removed came to visit. There was much groaning when the melody was revealed :)
-It turns out my aunt (uncle's wife) really likes opera!!!! We are already making plans to go to Salzburg or Italy sometime and watch opera :D (well, pipe dreams right now... I certainly wouldn't go until my kids are older)
(Part 1 was where I asked for help; Part 2 was an outtake of this post about emoting in opera)
no subject
Date: 2019-08-20 05:05 am (UTC)Though didn't either Stanley, Percy or both pull that one at the Battle of Bosworth?
With you about Viserys as a Stuart, though.
no subject
Date: 2019-08-20 05:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-20 05:21 am (UTC)Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs
Date: 2019-08-20 05:30 am (UTC)WTF, Fritz, indeed. Can't imagine what Maria Theresia would have said to that one, or rather, I can, since she could be very robust as well. Then again, other than their shared sense of duty and hard working nature, you could not have designed a more perfect opposite to Friedrich II than Maria Theresia if you tried, seriously, you couldn't, starting with the basics (Woman/man) and moving on to every area of their lives: married for love and remained in love with husband of choice till death/married to get out of prison, stayed away from wife thereafter; traditional Catholic versus free spirit/likely atheist; sixteen Kids, famously married all over Europe, versus childless monarch; loving parents (the worst MT's father ever did to her was not to prepare her for the succession, as he hoped to get a male heir until basically five minutes before his death, so she had to learn on the job and quickly) and secure childhood versus, well, childhood a la Hohenzollern and Nightmare adolescence; and so forth.
(Sidenote to amuse you both: one now forgotten German politician called Angela Merkel "the Maria Theresia of the Uckermark", meaning this as a put down while casting himself as Fritz as the same time. To which the rest of the journalists snorted and said, you are no Friedrich, Peter Gauweiler. Our Chancellor just ignored him.)
Additional irony,
ETA: A fanboy meets his Idol
Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs
Date: 2019-08-20 05:39 am (UTC)Oh, god, yes, if you want to know about Maria Theresia and Fritz, you need to know about Joseph II keeping Fritz's book by his bedside and that meeting of theirs, lol, 18th century history.
Shall we tell her about the Russian fanboy shenanigans too?
Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs
Date: 2019-08-20 05:42 am (UTC)Historical Fritz on this occasion: "Do they think I'm dead?"
Fritz: *can barely sit a horse* *not having his finest moments in this war*
Also Fritz: *still not dead yet*
Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs
Date: 2019-08-20 06:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-20 06:18 am (UTC)Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs
Date: 2019-08-20 06:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-20 08:06 am (UTC)BTW, in recent months one of the current Hohenzollern made headlines here in Germany, in typical Hohenzollern fashion.
Prince: So I‘m thinking. Maybe it‘s time for the German state to pay my family some money and/or restore some property to us?
Germans: WTF?
Prince: You did it for the House of Wittelsbach. The Wittelsbacher Ausgleichfond was founded after WWI and is still ongoing.
Germans: A) The Wittelsbach dynasty didn‘t lead us into WWI. That was your ancestor Willy.. B) The Wittelsbach family didn‘t afterwards get chummy with Hitler, despite living in the same province, but wisely kept their distance. Whereas your ancestor Son-of-Willy was all public fawning over AH because for some deluded reason, he thought HItler would restore the monarchy, and even showed up on propaganda occasions like the Day of Potsdam. C) The Wittelsbacher Ausgleichsfond is something the state of Bavaria pays, not the Federal Republic.
Prince: Son-of-Willy was much misunderstood. He was really anti Hitler.
Germans: WTF? There are films, photographs and documents.
Prince: ...he hung out with a friend of Stauffenberg‘s that one time. Now, maybe gimme a castle or two?
Meanwhile, in Austria...
Date: 2019-08-20 02:50 pm (UTC)Our Insane Family
Date: 2019-08-20 03:39 pm (UTC)Also, accurate? My nineteenth-century history-fu is too weak to say, but I love the concept and execution.
no subject
Date: 2019-08-20 04:33 pm (UTC)OK obviously you need to WRITE THIS NOW :P
Re: Wilhelmine's memoirs
Date: 2019-08-20 04:51 pm (UTC)...maybe in a new post? hold on
Re: Meanwhile, in Austria...
Date: 2019-08-20 04:59 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-20 10:19 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-21 01:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-21 01:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-21 02:14 am (UTC)People emigrated to his country so they could have more freedoms than anywhere else in Europe! He wanted to institute even more reforms than he did, but the nobility would have revolted. But he always did his best to protect the peasants, to the point where sometimes unscrupulous peasants took advantage of him this way!
If you're going to get all high-and-mighty about his "legacy" and the "precedents" he set, you need to look at the reforms other monarchs made during and shortly after his lifetime in imitation of him. People like Joseph II, Peter III, Catherine II, Leopold II2, and their reforms, which improved the lot of subjects outside of Prussia. You know what happened to French monarchs that *didn't* follow his example, huh?
And don't even get him started on the whole beer-drinking, sausage-eating, German-speaking, Protestant prince the Nazis made him into! He drank champagne (watered because he was opposed to getting drunk3 4), ate spicy French food, and was totally a deist/atheist like those godless commies the Russians that the Nazis hated so much (not that in any universe he would be a commie). Most importantly, he spoke French and wrote in French and studied French literature and wanted nothing to do with German culture, *gag*.
What, you said something about Jews? Sorry, you say they were the main victims of the Nazis? He's pretty sure the biggest victim of the Nazis was HIS REPUTATION, which took DECADES to rehabilitate, omfg. So uncalled for.
Oh, and IF he ever said anything anti-Semitic, that was totally different in the 18th century when everyone he knew was anti-Semitic, and he actually gave Jews more rights than a lot of people did5, and if *you*'d lived in the eighteenth century, you would have been brainwashed into a lot of opinions you'd cringe at today too, so don't go getting all holier-than-thou on him.
Also, Napoleon? Paid his respects at Fritz's tomb after defeating Prussia and said, "Hats off, gentlemen; if this man were alive, we wouldn't be here today"6, remember that part? Well, if Fritz had been alive in France during WWII, there would have been no fucking Vichy Regime, you better believe that.
<-- I haven't written this AU rant, but something like that, only in the first person.
1. Sometimes true.
2. First European monarch to abolish the death penalty altogether, in Tuscany, the year Fritz died.
3. Poor guy, the only time I know of that he got drunk was when he was about 16/17, and his father forced him to drink (FW did like to drink and smoke with his officers and they all got a bit rowdy at times) until he became intoxicated and started crying that he loved his father, and kissed him, and his father patted him on the head approvingly, like this is all FW ever wanted and is that too much to ask? and finally someone said, "Go home, Fritz, you're drunk," and put him to bed. On AO3, we would tag this "Forced Intoxication".
This story is extremely telling, btw, because alcohol doesn't *make* you aggressive or weepy or rambunctious, it just disinhibits you from whatever you've been exercising self-control over when sober. This anecdote tells you that, quite predictably, young Fritz spent a lot of time REFUSING to break down and cry that he loved his father and why didn't his father love him???
Of course, so does this one nightmare he reported having when he was 48 years old, in which he was arrested, and when he asked why, his sister said it was because he didn't love their father enough. He protested that it wasn't true, but he was carted off to prison anyway. ("Dream interprets self," as my wife likes to say about some of our dreams.)
And also that dream where Fritz asked his father what he thought of what he'd done with the kingdom he inherited, and FW said "Well done, Son", and Fritz told his father that his approval meant more to him than anything in the universe, UGH, Fritz, please get a therapist that hasn't been invented yet. Also *hug*.
Stockholm Syndrome, sigh. I know of very few child abuse survivors who don't have it. P.S. Fritz said a lot of nice things about his father after the latter's death, some of which were objectively true and some of which were pure Stockholm.
4 When Fritz was stressed, he once said, "I'd like to get drunk, but that's not an option, so I write French poetry instead." His reaction, later in life as king, to visiting the prison where he'd been kept and where he'd watched Katte get executed, was to go hole himself off for a while in a bleak mood and write poetry
that I assume was emo.5 I've seen the decree he promulgated regarding the Jews in his kingdom described as "a curious mixture of the medieval and the modern," which describes a lot of Fritz's policies in general. One biographer writes, "In an ocean heaving with irrational cruelty, a sovereign who was merely severe stood out as an island of humanity."
I like to say that Fritz managed to rise above his century in many ways, kept pace with it most of the time, and occasionally dropped the ball vis-a-vis his contemporaries.
I also like to argue, in general, that while cultural relativism is not a thing and I believe in an objective right and wrong, most humans are influenced by what their society is telling them in most respects. Some people manage to be pro-Semitic in a world where anti-Semitism is the default, some manage to be neo-Nazis in a post-Holocaust world, and the majority of people do what their society is doing. I have every reason to believe Fritz's anti-Semitism falls into the third category.
I do also believe that I myself would have some really abysmal beliefs I don't currently have if I had been born in the past, and that even if better ideas were floating around in the ether, I would not necessarily latch onto them in 100% of the cases. This forces me to realize that my hypothetical 23rd century self is probably looking at real me and WTFing on at least a couple of things.
6. Napoleon helped himself to a few of Old Fritz's belongings as memorabilia, including his alarm clock, lol. Told you Fritz was a celebrity!
Re: Our Insane Family
Date: 2019-08-21 04:26 am (UTC)However, while I understand the sentiment of fighting FW 1, I would point out that this relies on fighting him during the last years of his life when he was ill if you imagine winning or surviving that fight. I mean, we're talking about someone who won physical fights as a kid against a five years older kid (ask George II), who created the army his son would later use for his conquests and who has a track record of physical brutality through his adult life. Sorry, but I think I'd lose such a fight, any day, and so would most people not into martial arts. (Now, why Sophia Dorothea didn't just commission someone to poison him is another question.)
Also, what's F3 ever done to the poster? He was a devoted, mild-mannered husband to Vicky and would have been a progressive ruler, if he hadn't had cancer. Why would you want to fight him?
no subject
Date: 2019-08-21 04:38 am (UTC)Incidentally, the current Hannovers, true to form, are carrying out a bitter Father-son feud which has now gone to court. They're both called Ernst August (the older one was married to Caroline of Monaco for a while and infamous for beating up reporters and pissing in public when the big fair at Hannover was opened), and if you want to employ Google translate, you can read one typical article about it here.
Re: Our Insane Family
Date: 2019-08-21 04:38 am (UTC)LOLOL! There are counterarguments to be made, but point definitely taken. Commitment to the fight outstrips size and skill in a great many cases, which, without knowing anything about the anecdote, I'm guessing had a lot to do with the George II as kids situation. As I once saw someone put it, "A serial killer with a clothesline trumps a cheerleader with a bazooka."
Can some of us gang up on an absolute-power-less FW 1, though? Please? No one said it had to be 1 on 1. :P
Also, what's F3 ever done to the poster? He was a devoted, mild-mannered husband to Vicky and would have been a progressive ruler, if he hadn't had cancer. Why would you want to fight him?
I know nothing about him, so cool, thanks! *takes notes*
no subject
Date: 2019-08-21 04:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-08-22 12:57 pm (UTC)Yeah Paolo's weird orange outfit that he still wears after the time skip... as if that bitch wouldn't get himself some fancy new robes as soon as he can afford it. And then Simone has decent outfits but then his finale outfit he could jsut wear on the streets today and nobody would notice anything weird.
Sartori is just... the size of about 4 Pavarottis but his voice is nowhere near that level. I've seen him in a Trovatore that also had a ridiculously pretty Luna. Least convincing performance ever.
I've also watched a Boccanegra from '78, excellent cast (like, Cappuccilli, Ghiaurov, Freni) and of course traditional, but everything was just so... brown. Some muted pink here and there but overall colour whomst? It felt like playing unmodded Skyrim. Also that awkward moment when your husband plays your grandfather.
And because there is no such thing as enough Boccanegra, I watched the recent Salzburg broadcast, like wow René Pape Hot and also That Voice. Also Castronovo finally made Adorno something more than a whiny tenor. That boy can act. Salsi also makes a good Simone.
no subject
Date: 2019-08-23 03:55 am (UTC)Cappuccilli!! I've heard him as Boccanegra (audio, not video) and he has an amazing voice.
Aaaaaah, that Boccanegra sounds so good! I missed it, I wonder whether it will show up on rutracker? I would love to see one where Adorno was better than whiny tenor. Not to mention Pape omg!!