I return, properly logged in (I didn't take my laptop to Berlin), with the urge to give these unfortunate hypotheticals names. My instinct is to go for a daughter b. 1737 and a son b. 1739 (after, I think, FW1 has sent them a velvet bed?) and I fear that there is no chance this unfortunate son doesn't get forced to be another FW, as the other name option from FW1's ancestry is George. The daughter is probably another Sophia, and I feel like Frederick would fight for a Wilhelmine.
(Is it appropriate/are people interested enough to post this to rheinsberg?)
I fear that there is no chance this unfortunate son doesn't get forced to be another FW, as the other name option from FW1's ancestry is George
Now that's slander. ;) Going by the names FW gave his own kids, including the son he had before Fritz (and even before Wilhelmine) died as babies, he was entirely willing to combine "Friedrich" with "Ludwig" instead. So a grandson could have been called "Friedrich Ludwig" as well. FW naming the younger sons after his pal and competition from Saxony (the August in both August Wilhelm and August Ferdinand) would indicate a readiness to honor a living neigbour as well, and given this hypothetical kid would be half Braunschweig, he might go for "Friedrich Karl" or "Friedrich Ferdinand" (both Brunswick names).
(If Fritz gets to choose at all, I'm tempted to go with "Karl Emil", which is the name he suggested for the baby his sister-in-law Luise was pregnant with when AW died. Back in the day we thought that was random, but since then we found out Karl Emil was in fact the name of the Great Elector's original oldest son, big brother to future F1, who died young, and thus already a Hohenzollern name.)
The daughter is probably another Sophia, and I feel like Frederick would fight for a Wilhelmine.
Agreed on both counts.
If there's a son born in 1739 specifically, btw, it might cause some interesting developments. Because that year the father/son relationship between FW and Fritz took another sudden downturn in tandem with FW's health, so much so that according to the gossipy envoys and according to the Fritz and Wilhelmine letters, FW even made noises about the succession. Now he couldn't have altered the succession from Fritz to AW, no matter what he threatened, without Imperial backup and the Diet of Regensburg agreeing. But if he suddenly has his first grandson in the direct line of descent, not by a daughter, then either he's so pleased that Fritz is spared a few paternal rants, OR he makes noises about "what if I alter the succession so your son inherits directly from me, provided I stay alive for the next two decades as well?", which would be a bit easier to do, I suspect (though I guess would still need Imperial backup.
Given Mildred posted some of our other wild "whaqt if?" speculations (what if FW gets murdered Agatha Christie style, what if time travel?) at Rheinsberg, I think it would be entirely appropriate!
I apologise to FW most heartily! I also note that we are entering the period of three given names, so possibly Elisabeth Christine manages to get a Sophia Wilhelmine Elisabeth, or Sophia Wilhelmine Antoinette, in there. And this, of course, adds additional options for little baby Friedrich Karl Emil.
Given FW's...FW, possibly he starts off by sparing the rants, then goes to "what if I create him my heir? What THEN?" and then dies before he can change the succession, and submit Prussia to the rule of an infant who cannot yet consume solid food. (For added irony, possibly FKE either dies before Fritz, or survives him only a little, so rule by infant or toddler is only put off for a generation.)
I shall post it, along with the many options for who FKE can marry! (With a tossup on if Sophia etc makes the best marriage Fritz can arrange for her, or never marries at all and has a romance with her sister-in-law a la Mimi and Isabella of Parma.)
Now that's slander. ;) Going by the names FW gave his own kids, including the son he had before Fritz (and even before Wilhelmine) died as babies, he was entirely willing to combine "Friedrich" with "Ludwig" instead.
I just have to say I totally snorted here and almost spilled my tea :D
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-02 11:09 am (UTC)(Is it appropriate/are people interested enough to post this to
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-02 02:10 pm (UTC)Now that's slander. ;) Going by the names FW gave his own kids, including the son he had before Fritz (and even before Wilhelmine) died as babies, he was entirely willing to combine "Friedrich" with "Ludwig" instead. So a grandson could have been called "Friedrich Ludwig" as well. FW naming the younger sons after his pal and competition from Saxony (the August in both August Wilhelm and August Ferdinand) would indicate a readiness to honor a living neigbour as well, and given this hypothetical kid would be half Braunschweig, he might go for "Friedrich Karl" or "Friedrich Ferdinand" (both Brunswick names).
(If Fritz gets to choose at all, I'm tempted to go with "Karl Emil", which is the name he suggested for the baby his sister-in-law Luise was pregnant with when AW died. Back in the day we thought that was random, but since then we found out Karl Emil was in fact the name of the Great Elector's original oldest son, big brother to future F1, who died young, and thus already a Hohenzollern name.)
The daughter is probably another Sophia, and I feel like Frederick would fight for a Wilhelmine.
Agreed on both counts.
If there's a son born in 1739 specifically, btw, it might cause some interesting developments. Because that year the father/son relationship between FW and Fritz took another sudden downturn in tandem with FW's health, so much so that according to the gossipy envoys and according to the Fritz and Wilhelmine letters, FW even made noises about the succession. Now he couldn't have altered the succession from Fritz to AW, no matter what he threatened, without Imperial backup and the Diet of Regensburg agreeing. But if he suddenly has his first grandson in the direct line of descent, not by a daughter, then either he's so pleased that Fritz is spared a few paternal rants, OR he makes noises about "what if I alter the succession so your son inherits directly from me, provided I stay alive for the next two decades as well?", which would be a bit easier to do, I suspect (though I guess would still need Imperial backup.
Given Mildred posted some of our other wild "whaqt if?" speculations (what if FW gets murdered Agatha Christie style, what if time travel?) at Rheinsberg, I think it would be entirely appropriate!
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-02 02:23 pm (UTC)Given FW's...FW, possibly he starts off by sparing the rants, then goes to "what if I create him my heir? What THEN?" and then dies before he can change the succession, and submit Prussia to the rule of an infant who cannot yet consume solid food. (For added irony, possibly FKE either dies before Fritz, or survives him only a little, so rule by infant or toddler is only put off for a generation.)
I shall post it, along with the many options for who FKE can marry! (With a tossup on if Sophia etc makes the best marriage Fritz can arrange for her, or never marries at all and has a romance with her sister-in-law a la Mimi and Isabella of Parma.)
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-03 09:29 am (UTC)Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-03 11:52 am (UTC)Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-08 10:35 pm (UTC)I just have to say I totally snorted here and almost spilled my tea :D