Ooh, this is bad. Very bad. :P Poor kid, whoever he/she was.
I agree with everything you say here, Selena.
the kind of extrovert adorable imp that apparently both AW and (at a guess) Henricus Minor were
Yeah, and personality aside, I'm betting Henricus Minor benefitted from not having all the weight of expectations of being the heir plus being seen as a potential threat.
I agree with your guess that he was an extravert adorable imp, because Fritz's Very Bad Condolence Letter to Ulrike on HM's death said that HM was a lot like his father, minus his father's shortcomings (omg, Fritz).
MT: I pity any offspring this man might have. However, I suddenly see some potential for a return of Silesia a generation later if the kid is properly influenced. Maybe more. Hm. Which of my daughters might make a good Queen in Prussia?
Lololol! Tu felix Austria nube!
So which of the daughters *would* she choose as queen in Prussia?
Or, conversely, who does Fritz's son marry, if not one of MT's daughters?
ETA: And be glad *you're* not Fritz's offspring, Vienna!Joe, because hooooly hell.
Looking at the timeline, the first of MT's daughters to marry outside her court (Maria Christina is excused) is Maria Amalia, b. 1746. There is also the possibility of Maria Elisabeth, b. 1743, as Vienna Joe couldn't argue that this match lacked strategic advantage.
Looking outside the Hapsburgs, I think there are two questions: the diplomatic benefits, and the woman in question. Frederick might like a marriage to one of the Wales girls, but historically, two of them were in very bad health, Caroline Mathilde was possibly too young, and Augusta had three sons with issues of mental and physical health. While they wouldn't know that, it seems like marrying her into Prussia would be cruel.
Other options include Maria Kunigunda of Saxony, who didn't marry because Joseph found her too shy to be his second wife, and whose father was a Lutheran until offered the Polish throne. They were all very well educated, and her sisters included the Dauphine, the Electress of Bavaria and the Queen of Spain (and several Abbesses who became these for lack of options.) There's also, I suppose, Joseph's historical second wife, who might be happier married to a man not desperately in love with his first wife, but religion may or may not be an issue.
Looking closer to home, there is Wilhelmine's daughter Elisabeth, one of Philippine Charlotte's daughters, or one of Sophia Dorothea Jr's daughters. There's also Christiane of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, older sister of Charlotte.
I agree with your guess that he was an extravert adorable imp, because Fritz's Very Bad Condolence Letter to Ulrike on HM's death said that HM was a lot like his father, minus his father's shortcomings (omg, Fritz).
OMG indeed!
ETA: And be glad *you're* not Fritz's offspring, Vienna!Joe, because hooooly hell.
Lolololol! Oh boy that would be something to watch once Vienna!Joe started having ideas of his own.
Yes, but that might not help Joseph. Fritz and Heinrich were both lousy husbands for identical reasons. This did not stop Fritz from insisting on the marriage in the first place and then insisting on keeping it existing. (Also, he actually liked Heinrich's wife; at least he praises her directly after the marriage in letters to Wilhelmine. This sympathy did not produce anything useful for his sister-in-law other than the refusal to let Heinrich divorce her, which to me always felt mor like being for "if I can't, he can't" reasons.)
By which I mean that if Joseph were Fritz' son, you can bet he still would have had to marry against his will the second time.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-05-29 11:28 pm (UTC)I agree with everything you say here, Selena.
the kind of extrovert adorable imp that apparently both AW and (at a guess) Henricus Minor were
Yeah, and personality aside, I'm betting Henricus Minor benefitted from not having all the weight of expectations of being the heir plus being seen as a potential threat.
I agree with your guess that he was an extravert adorable imp, because Fritz's Very Bad Condolence Letter to Ulrike on HM's death said that HM was a lot like his father, minus his father's shortcomings (omg, Fritz).
MT: I pity any offspring this man might have. However, I suddenly see some potential for a return of Silesia a generation later if the kid is properly influenced. Maybe more. Hm. Which of my daughters might make a good Queen in Prussia?
Lololol! Tu felix Austria nube!
So which of the daughters *would* she choose as queen in Prussia?
Or, conversely, who does Fritz's son marry, if not one of MT's daughters?
ETA: And be glad *you're* not Fritz's offspring, Vienna!Joe, because hooooly hell.
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-05-30 05:41 am (UTC)Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-05-31 09:03 am (UTC)Other options include Maria Kunigunda of Saxony, who didn't marry because Joseph found her too shy to be his second wife, and whose father was a Lutheran until offered the Polish throne. They were all very well educated, and her sisters included the Dauphine, the Electress of Bavaria and the Queen of Spain (and several Abbesses who became these for lack of options.) There's also, I suppose, Joseph's historical second wife, who might be happier married to a man not desperately in love with his first wife, but religion may or may not be an issue.
Looking closer to home, there is Wilhelmine's daughter Elisabeth, one of Philippine Charlotte's daughters, or one of Sophia Dorothea Jr's daughters. There's also Christiane of Mecklenburg-Strelitz, older sister of Charlotte.
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-01 04:15 am (UTC)OMG indeed!
ETA: And be glad *you're* not Fritz's offspring, Vienna!Joe, because hooooly hell.
Lolololol! Oh boy that would be something to watch once Vienna!Joe started having ideas of his own.
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-01 04:16 am (UTC)"No, you're not."
Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-02 11:10 am (UTC)Re: Counterfactuals...
Date: 2025-06-02 01:53 pm (UTC)By which I mean that if Joseph were Fritz' son, you can bet he still would have had to marry against his will the second time.