With all our recent discoveries, I've been hunting through the Prussian and Aurich archive catalogues, and I've made some pretty exciting discoveries!
First and foremost, in the private Knyphausen papers, there is a document entitled:
"The arrest of Baron Tido Friedrich zu Inn- und Knyphausen at the request of his mother - 1745"
!!!
1745?? I have to wonder what's going on there. She just had him placed in a Bavarian regiment in 1744. Since 1745 is the end date, and no start date is given, I wonder if there are multiple documents, some undated, and 1745 is the only dated one. Maybe the arrest was in 1741. Anyway, *something* dramatic is going on here, and this document is a must-have!
Then it looks like maybe there was some kind of legal battle between the Knyphausen cousin in East Frisia regarding his being guardian of Oriane and her siblings after their father's 1731 death? I didn't realize he had been appointed their guardian, but that makes sense.
Then there's letters from this cousin to his son Georg Anton and his cousin Tido. Now, there are multiple Tidos, so maybe this isn't *our* Tido, but I have to check! The letters are from 1776-1780, and our Tido dies in 1780, so it's just barely possible.
There's a set of documents on Amalia Schönhausen, from 1764 to 1780, which I want, of course.
And then, over in the Prussian archive, Hertzberg has been corresponding with Trenck in the years 1779 to 1792. While there's only a slim chance that Amalia gets mentioned, it's possible, and in any case, Trenck, like Tido, is a "never a dull moment" adventurer!
I'm not planning to order these immediately (except maybe the Prussian one); I need the leisure to do a thorough hunt through the Knyphausen papers for a list of everything I anticipate wanting in the next several months, since I don't want to be bothering them every other week as I discover new goodies in the catalogue.
I will definitely keep salon posted as I acquire new material and make new discoveries via the power of decipherment!
Felis, since you've been super helpful to me in figuring out how to order from archives in the past, I wanted to let you know that I'm struggling with figuring out where to find, and how to order, and how much it will cost, the French envoy reports from the French foreign affairs department. I know that would mean navigating sites in French, not German, but just in case you feel up to it and have the time, I respect your detective skills greatly and could use the help.
And I just know that if I could get my hands on Rottembourg's and Sauveterre's envoy reports from the 1720s and 1730, we'd find something good! :D (If nothing else, I'd like to cite the reports directly for the Peter Keith bio, and not have to rely on Lavisse's summaries.) But every time I try to find them, I either end up searching a catalogue where they don't turn up, or a website refuses to load, or I end up looking at a pricing form that says 50 euros per page, and it's just been a frustrating experience. I can't even figure out what building I would need to go to and and what I would need to ask for if I ended up going in person.
If you don't have time, I'll see what I can do, but I don't know if or when I'll have more success in the future than I have in the past.
On another note, I have to go back and slap myself on the forehead: I have *no* idea what I was reading that led me to believe Schwerin was a lt colonel in the 1730s. One, you don't get promoted from lt colonel to field marshal in the time frame he would have needed to be (not even Seydlitz, famous for his overnight leaps in rank); two, he was a major general already when voting on Katte's and Fritz's sentences in 1730, duh.
So no, I no longer think the two people are the same, *but*, I still kind of suspect it's Kurt. One thing I'm curious about is this document dated 1737 that has his name on it and is in the private Knyphausen papers in East Frisia. Does it have to do with the illegitimate child? I'm going to order it and find out!
I submitted a page check request to the Prussian archives for the Hertzberg-Trenck correspondence, btw, to see how much it would cost to order. Fingers crossed!
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timeasmymeasure
New archive material wishlist
Date: 2025-01-16 02:57 pm (UTC)First and foremost, in the private Knyphausen papers, there is a document entitled:
"The arrest of Baron Tido Friedrich zu Inn- und Knyphausen at the request of his mother - 1745"
!!!
1745?? I have to wonder what's going on there. She just had him placed in a Bavarian regiment in 1744. Since 1745 is the end date, and no start date is given, I wonder if there are multiple documents, some undated, and 1745 is the only dated one. Maybe the arrest was in 1741. Anyway, *something* dramatic is going on here, and this document is a must-have!
Then it looks like maybe there was some kind of legal battle between the Knyphausen cousin in East Frisia regarding his being guardian of Oriane and her siblings after their father's 1731 death? I didn't realize he had been appointed their guardian, but that makes sense.
Then there's letters from this cousin to his son Georg Anton and his cousin Tido. Now, there are multiple Tidos, so maybe this isn't *our* Tido, but I have to check! The letters are from 1776-1780, and our Tido dies in 1780, so it's just barely possible.
There's a set of documents on Amalia Schönhausen, from 1764 to 1780, which I want, of course.
And then, over in the Prussian archive, Hertzberg has been corresponding with Trenck in the years 1779 to 1792. While there's only a slim chance that Amalia gets mentioned, it's possible, and in any case, Trenck, like Tido, is a "never a dull moment" adventurer!
I'm not planning to order these immediately (except maybe the Prussian one); I need the leisure to do a thorough hunt through the Knyphausen papers for a list of everything I anticipate wanting in the next several months, since I don't want to be bothering them every other week as I discover new goodies in the catalogue.
I will definitely keep salon posted as I acquire new material and make new discoveries via the power of decipherment!
Re: New archive material wishlist: Felis?
Date: 2025-01-16 03:04 pm (UTC)And I just know that if I could get my hands on Rottembourg's and Sauveterre's envoy reports from the 1720s and 1730, we'd find something good! :D (If nothing else, I'd like to cite the reports directly for the Peter Keith bio, and not have to rely on Lavisse's summaries.) But every time I try to find them, I either end up searching a catalogue where they don't turn up, or a website refuses to load, or I end up looking at a pricing form that says 50 euros per page, and it's just been a frustrating experience. I can't even figure out what building I would need to go to and and what I would need to ask for if I ended up going in person.
If you don't have time, I'll see what I can do, but I don't know if or when I'll have more success in the future than I have in the past.
No worries if you can't! Just thought I'd ask!
Re: New archive material wishlist
Date: 2025-01-20 05:59 am (UTC)WOW
Well, I will look forward to this whenever you are able to put in a reasonable order!
Re: New archive material wishlist
Date: 2025-01-20 05:24 pm (UTC)On another note, I have to go back and slap myself on the forehead: I have *no* idea what I was reading that led me to believe Schwerin was a lt colonel in the 1730s. One, you don't get promoted from lt colonel to field marshal in the time frame he would have needed to be (not even Seydlitz, famous for his overnight leaps in rank); two, he was a major general already when voting on Katte's and Fritz's sentences in 1730, duh.
So no, I no longer think the two people are the same, *but*, I still kind of suspect it's Kurt. One thing I'm curious about is this document dated 1737 that has his name on it and is in the private Knyphausen papers in East Frisia. Does it have to do with the illegitimate child? I'm going to order it and find out!
I submitted a page check request to the Prussian archives for the Hertzberg-Trenck correspondence, btw, to see how much it would cost to order. Fingers crossed!