Good grief. Poor Catherine! Bad everyone else, including Lehndorff.
Re:
ALSO, it's unclear how this account fits with Fontane's story that Fritz decided a different Katte should be married to an heiress, and Ludolf decided to marry her while he was supposed to be checking her out on behalf of his brother.
Given Fontane also says the Hans Hermmann's half brothers fought their duel for love, and given he has his Katte info from the relations owning the estate mid 19th century, I don't find it that surprising they present all this als Ludolf falling passionately in love as well. Mercenary motives both for the duel to the death and the teenage bride who started out as not even that and a literal child bride look. Also, Fontane is a poet and novelist.
BTW, I just checked how Lehndorff presents the whole thing not in 1787, when he's generally angry at life (due to FW2 having no intention to give him any job, and other things), but in the late 1750s, i.e. far closer to actual events:
I renew my aquaintance with Frau von Katte, my Cousin, whom I was supposed to marry in 1751; family intrigues caused her to give her hand to Herr von Katte instead, a man who does not suit this young and charming woman at all. Consequently, she soon bitterly repented this, as did I, who never had more than 200 000 Taler which would have been the amount she'd have brought into the marriage. She possesses a cheerful temper and many other estimable qualities, which would have made us suit each other completely. As it is impossible for us now to marry, we swear eternal friendship to each other.
And then:
29th birthday of the Princess of Prussia. (I.e. Louise, wife of AW.) All the nobility shows up in gala dress at court. Frau von Katte getes officially presented to the Queen. She is a very charming woman, and I am even more sorry because of her person than I am because of the money.
Re: the marriage with Ludolf and her children:
I receive sad news from Berlin; my cousin Katt has lost her youngest son, a charming boy. (...) The loss of her child causes her great pain; she has a good heart and is a tender mother, but her husband is so repulsive to her that she does not want to have any more children with him.
That she left with the remaining kids is what the local historian told me, I think (not 100 % sure), as the explanation as to why she's not buried in the family crypt and Ludolf is. But if Lehndorff isn't totally making things up re: her feelings for Ludolf, it wouldn't surprises me.
Anyway, as he does not mention her age when they were "supposed to marry", I never would have guessed, kudos once more to the Royal Detective!
Given Fontane also says the Hans Hermmann's half brothers fought their duel for love, and given he has his Katte info from the relations owning the estate mid 19th century, I don't find it that surprising they present all this als Ludolf falling passionately in love as well.
That does make sense. Thank you for reminding me where Fontane got his information from.
Anyway, as he does not mention her age when they were "supposed to marry", I never would have guessed, kudos once more to the Royal Detective!
Indeed, we did not predict this! OTOH, we also couldn't explain the two-year delay in negotiations, and I suppose we just weren't cynical enough to see that those two things go together: if you propose to an 11-year-old, they will make you wait at least 2 years! Btw, legally there could be an understanding that a child under 14 would be married, but you couldn't get formally engaged until 14. Still not great, but better than 11.
I'm also curious how soon after her father died Lehndorff proposed: I have this suspicion that as soon as he did, she was the heiress, and he made his move. But perhaps that's an unfounded suspicion.
Oh, speaking of the two-year wait, I forgot to mention that the document says that Grandma survived until 1751 "against all human hope," which is why there was all that stuff about her will and her trying to make sure the Lehndorff marriage happened even after she died.
P.S. This totally counts as Peter Keith bio work, because the Katte-Rosey marriage is going in as an example of Fritz favoring the Kattes, in contrast to Peter, and I wanted as much evidence that Fritz was involved as I could get, beyond Fontane and one diary entry from Lehndorff. Next, I go back to working my way through the Knyphausen correspondence, and doing another pass at du Moulin's handwriting, looking for errors in my earlier transcription. Plus Fredersdorf: I made good progress today!
I'm also curious how soon after her father died Lehndorff proposed: I have this suspicion that as soon as he did, she was the heiress, and he made his move. But perhaps that's an unfounded suspicion.
I guess it depends on whether or not we believe he wasn't that keen on the marriage originally and it was his family's idea, as he presents it in 1787. He doesn't say it was his idea in the 1750s entries, either, to be fair, but he utterly blames "intrigues" for the lack of the marriage. That he finds a grown up Catherine attractive and charming doesn't mean something either way, since clearly the original proposal was about the money and the money only.
It's worth keeping in mind that Lehndorff at this point was the youngest of the family (born after his father's death), that he didn't expect to inherit the estate (since he had a well and alive older brother), and that he can't expect a military career due to his physical handicap. A political career thus is the only option, and for that, he needs money. Definitely if he becomes an Ambassador (which is one of the things he really fancied), but also if he has a career at court. Even in his current job, as EC's newly appointed Chamberlain, he has, for example, to dress up in style every time he shows up at court. (Remember his sarcastic portrait of his colleague, Count von Wartensleben the sugar hoarder, who only has one glove for the arm on which he has to escort the Queen and otherwise wants to save money, ditto for stealing all that sugar.) So both variations are believable: he's after an heiress, any heiress, even an eleven years old one, because he knows he needs that money, or: his mother and older brother and sisters make it clear that he better marry into some cash. Also, why not both? Presumably Catherine du Rosey was the heiress of choice because the Lehndorffs knew about her from Grandma and they knew how much money Lehndorff could expect, since they were related. Whereas for strangers, you have to introduce yourself and win the family over, and you can make a guess as to how much money she'll actually get because the parents/guardians won't tell you the exact sum until they already seriously consider you as a candidate.
(Ludolf apparantly heard it from Stepmom directly, unless that part isn't true.)
By 1751, Lehndorff is regularly hanging out with the Divine Trio, which must expensive as well. All those masques and parties, etc. So he definitely wants a dowry by then, whether or not he also wants the girl as well as the dowry. Why not try for another heiress? Among other things, it would take time and effort to win someone else's family and the girl herself over, and he's starting to seriously fall in love with Heinrich and to become obsessive, which together with his actual job leaves little time to look for a more suitable (age wise) bride.
(And presumably Ludolf sees no reason to look for an alternative because why should he? Stepmom is on his side, the King is, too, and she has money.)
Did some detective work: Catherine du Rosey's father died in 1744, so 5 years before the proposal. I guess Lehndorff did wait! Uncharitably, until he started to realize he was in a dead-end job. :P
I guess also she would have been 6 when her father died, so I can imagine even in a society where it's marginally okay to propose to 11-year-olds maybe a 6-year-old is NOT okay?
I mean, SD was trying to arrange the marriage between Wilhelmine and Fritz of Wales when they were like, 2 years old, so while Lehndorff is not royalty, I wouldn't be surprised if he just wasn't seriously looking/desperate yet.
Also, in case I have not said this enough, UGH, this poor girl who men keep trying to marry :( Your comment about what all of them must have been thinking or calculating makes this even more clear :(
and he's starting to seriously fall in love with Heinrich and to become obsessive, which together with his actual job leaves little time to look for a more suitable (age wise) bride.
Okay, I did find this funny, though. "Sorry, I'm too busy obsessively falling in love to actually reasonably look for a wife!"
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Lehndorff's one who got away
Date: 2025-01-11 06:30 pm (UTC)Re:
ALSO, it's unclear how this account fits with Fontane's story that Fritz decided a different Katte should be married to an heiress, and Ludolf decided to marry her while he was supposed to be checking her out on behalf of his brother.
Given Fontane also says the Hans Hermmann's half brothers fought their duel for love, and given he has his Katte info from the relations owning the estate mid 19th century, I don't find it that surprising they present all this als Ludolf falling passionately in love as well. Mercenary motives both for the duel to the death and the teenage bride who started out as not even that and a literal child bride look. Also, Fontane is a poet and novelist.
BTW, I just checked how Lehndorff presents the whole thing not in 1787, when he's generally angry at life (due to FW2 having no intention to give him any job, and other things), but in the late 1750s, i.e. far closer to actual events:
I renew my aquaintance with Frau von Katte, my Cousin, whom I was supposed to marry in 1751; family intrigues caused her to give her hand to Herr von Katte instead, a man who does not suit this young and charming woman at all. Consequently, she soon bitterly repented this, as did I, who never had more than 200 000 Taler which would have been the amount she'd have brought into the marriage. She possesses a cheerful temper and many other estimable qualities, which would have made us suit each other completely. As it is impossible for us now to marry, we swear eternal friendship to each other.
And then:
29th birthday of the Princess of Prussia. (I.e. Louise, wife of AW.) All the nobility shows up in gala dress at court. Frau von Katte getes officially presented to the Queen. She is a very charming woman, and I am even more sorry because of her person than I am because of the money.
Re: the marriage with Ludolf and her children:
I receive sad news from Berlin; my cousin Katt has lost her youngest son, a charming boy. (...) The loss of her child causes her great pain; she has a good heart and is a tender mother, but her husband is so repulsive to her that she does not want to have any more children with him.
That she left with the remaining kids is what the local historian told me, I think (not 100 % sure), as the explanation as to why she's not buried in the family crypt and Ludolf is. But if Lehndorff isn't totally making things up re: her feelings for Ludolf, it wouldn't surprises me.
Anyway, as he does not mention her age when they were "supposed to marry", I never would have guessed, kudos once more to the Royal Detective!
Re: Lehndorff's one who got away
Date: 2025-01-11 06:49 pm (UTC)That does make sense. Thank you for reminding me where Fontane got his information from.
Anyway, as he does not mention her age when they were "supposed to marry", I never would have guessed, kudos once more to the Royal Detective!
Indeed, we did not predict this! OTOH, we also couldn't explain the two-year delay in negotiations, and I suppose we just weren't cynical enough to see that those two things go together: if you propose to an 11-year-old, they will make you wait at least 2 years! Btw, legally there could be an understanding that a child under 14 would be married, but you couldn't get formally engaged until 14. Still not great, but better than 11.
I'm also curious how soon after her father died Lehndorff proposed: I have this suspicion that as soon as he did, she was the heiress, and he made his move. But perhaps that's an unfounded suspicion.
Oh, speaking of the two-year wait, I forgot to mention that the document says that Grandma survived until 1751 "against all human hope," which is why there was all that stuff about her will and her trying to make sure the Lehndorff marriage happened even after she died.
P.S. This totally counts as Peter Keith bio work, because the Katte-Rosey marriage is going in as an example of Fritz favoring the Kattes, in contrast to Peter, and I wanted as much evidence that Fritz was involved as I could get, beyond Fontane and one diary entry from Lehndorff. Next, I go back to working my way through the Knyphausen correspondence, and doing another pass at du Moulin's handwriting, looking for errors in my earlier transcription. Plus Fredersdorf: I made good progress today!
Re: Lehndorff's one who got away
Date: 2025-01-12 12:44 pm (UTC)I guess it depends on whether or not we believe he wasn't that keen on the marriage originally and it was his family's idea, as he presents it in 1787. He doesn't say it was his idea in the 1750s entries, either, to be fair, but he utterly blames "intrigues" for the lack of the marriage. That he finds a grown up Catherine attractive and charming doesn't mean something either way, since clearly the original proposal was about the money and the money only.
It's worth keeping in mind that Lehndorff at this point was the youngest of the family (born after his father's death), that he didn't expect to inherit the estate (since he had a well and alive older brother), and that he can't expect a military career due to his physical handicap. A political career thus is the only option, and for that, he needs money. Definitely if he becomes an Ambassador (which is one of the things he really fancied), but also if he has a career at court. Even in his current job, as EC's newly appointed Chamberlain, he has, for example, to dress up in style every time he shows up at court. (Remember his sarcastic portrait of his colleague, Count von Wartensleben the sugar hoarder, who only has one glove for the arm on which he has to escort the Queen and otherwise wants to save money, ditto for stealing all that sugar.) So both variations are believable: he's after an heiress, any heiress, even an eleven years old one, because he knows he needs that money, or: his mother and older brother and sisters make it clear that he better marry into some cash. Also, why not both? Presumably Catherine du Rosey was the heiress of choice because the Lehndorffs knew about her from Grandma and they knew how much money Lehndorff could expect, since they were related. Whereas for strangers, you have to introduce yourself and win the family over, and you can make a guess as to how much money she'll actually get because the parents/guardians won't tell you the exact sum until they already seriously consider you as a candidate.
(Ludolf apparantly heard it from Stepmom directly, unless that part isn't true.)
By 1751, Lehndorff is regularly hanging out with the Divine Trio, which must expensive as well. All those masques and parties, etc. So he definitely wants a dowry by then, whether or not he also wants the girl as well as the dowry. Why not try for another heiress? Among other things, it would take time and effort to win someone else's family and the girl herself over, and he's starting to seriously fall in love with Heinrich and to become obsessive, which together with his actual job leaves little time to look for a more suitable (age wise) bride.
(And presumably Ludolf sees no reason to look for an alternative because why should he? Stepmom is on his side, the King is, too, and she has money.)
Re: Lehndorff's one who got away
Date: 2025-01-12 01:33 pm (UTC)Re: Lehndorff's one who got away
Date: 2025-01-15 05:19 am (UTC)Re: Lehndorff's one who got away
Date: 2025-01-15 10:47 am (UTC)Re: Lehndorff's one who got away
Date: 2025-01-15 05:21 am (UTC)and he's starting to seriously fall in love with Heinrich and to become obsessive, which together with his actual job leaves little time to look for a more suitable (age wise) bride.
Okay, I did find this funny, though. "Sorry, I'm too busy obsessively falling in love to actually reasonably look for a wife!"