No kidding. It's like Lehndorff with his refusal to deliver Katte family gossip despite having an in with the clan via Frau von Katte!
Congratulation to your deciphering. Wasn't a letter by FW the very first thing you deciphered because it's on the website where they teach you to decipher 18th century Süderin as an example? Anyway, him having the idea to forge a Fritz letter in order to entrap Peter makes me wonder whether he remembered Clement and all his forged letters....
Wasn't a letter by FW the very first thing you deciphered because it's on the website where they teach you to decipher 18th century Süderin as an example?
Yes, but the letter was by FW, I'm pretty sure the handwriting was not! It's noticeably worse in mine, and I assume the example the Prussian archive website gives was dictated. I mean, maybe mine was dictated too, but if so, it was dictated to someone with bad handwriting!
Anyway, mine was sent from Wesel in a hurry ("Catch Peter now!!"), and the website's was sent from Wusterhausen at more leisure ("Plz talk Wretched Son out of predestination"), so I assume FW had more options for people with good handwriting to dictate the Wusterhausen one to.
ETA: Yes, I went and looked at the website, and it says "Cabinet order. Handwritten copy." Copies are almost always "clean copies," i.e. in better handwriting than the original.
Anyway, him having the idea to forge a Fritz letter in order to entrap Peter makes me wonder whether he remembered Clement and all his forged letters....
Ooh, I hadn't thought of that!
What's interesting is FW says "diese Briefe," which I take to mean he wanted the actual letters he enclosed sent; whereas Du Moulin and Meinerzhagen decide to forge a letter based on an actual letter. Maybe so they could make changes? Maybe so they'd have his original handwriting in case they needed to forge mutiple letters (no carbon paper in those days)?
Anyway, maybe FW *didn't* have forgery on the brain, that was an embellishment by his agents. But maybe!
Maybe so they could make changes? Maybe so they'd have his original handwriting in case they needed to forge mutiple letters (no carbon paper in those days)?
Okay, I get it. I'm going back over Du Moulin trying to puzzle out more of the handwriting, and it's clear the reason they copied it rather than sending the original was to change the date and place so the date was more recent and the place was Utrecht. They obviously want it to look like Fritz has escaped and is in the Netherlands *now*, as opposed to sending an old letter from when he's in Germany, which isn't going to make Peter very confident about coming out of hiding.
Also, I guess Fritz still had a letter on him when he was arrested, meaning he had been traveling with it and hadn't destroyed it, when he was arrested. It looks like he was still hoping to make a break for it, until the very end.
Unless he had mailed it already, and it had been confiscated and given to FW. I suppose that's possible.
ETA: And they changed the place Peter was supposed to go to, as well: Amsterdam instead of Speyer. Yeah, Peter's not leaving the relative safety of Chesterfield's house to go *back* into Germany, and deep into Germany at that.
(I'm telling you, this plan changed daily. There was no "the plan"; there was only everyone winging it.)
So I think FW said "Send this authentic letter!" and his agents went, "That's not going to be very effective. What we can do instead is forge a letter that tells him to go somewhere he might actually go, in a way that makes it look like Fritz has escaped and is actually going to meet him there."
So no, I don't think FW had Clement on the brain; that was his agents displaying some initiative to make the plan more effective.
Ha, so having read through Du Moulin more carefully, I remembered that he was sending people to different cities looking for Peter, and it dawned on me that that must be what some of these other protocols I haven't read/deciphered yet are. (I was mostly ignoring them because I didn't recognize who they were by, and a quick skim didn't reveal anything exciting.)
And indeed!
At least one is the Lt. Cordier that he sent to Amsterdam. Cordier had the same experience Du Moulin and Meinerzhagen did: he reported a deserter, was told that deserters had asylum in this city, clarified that it wasn't just desertion but matters of state that this guy was guilty of, and was told that he'd have to wait until the official meeting of the authorities qualified to decide that.
Dutch: Screw you, FW.
This letter (beautiful handwriting, thank you, Cordier--didn't have to transcribe at all, could read at sight) also confirmed my educated guess that the "Waapen van Embden" was an inn in Amsterdam. You may remember that that's where the forged letter told Peter to go to meet Fritz. So my guess is that Du Moulin and Meinerzhagen picked that inn after receiving notification from Cordier that he was staying there. Since Cordier's letter is dated the 18th, and they sent the forged letter on the 20th, and Amsterdam to The Hague is 60 km, I assume the mail could get there in time for that to be the sequence of events.
Stay tuned for exciting Knyphausen drama not involving Peter but worth reporting anyway!
At least one is the Lt. Cordier that he sent to Amsterdam. Cordier had the same experience Du Moulin and Meinerzhagen did: he reported a deserter, was told that deserters had asylum in this city, clarified that it wasn't just desertion but matters of state that this guy was guilty of, and was told that he'd have to wait until the official meeting of the authorities qualified to decide that.
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timeasmymeasure
Re: Minor Peter and Karl Keith findings
Date: 2025-01-06 04:32 pm (UTC)Congratulation to your deciphering. Wasn't a letter by FW the very first thing you deciphered because it's on the website where they teach you to decipher 18th century Süderin as an example? Anyway, him having the idea to forge a Fritz letter in order to entrap Peter makes me wonder whether he remembered Clement and all his forged letters....
Re: Minor Peter and Karl Keith findings
Date: 2025-01-06 04:52 pm (UTC)Yes, but the letter was by FW, I'm pretty sure the handwriting was not! It's noticeably worse in mine, and I assume the example the Prussian archive website gives was dictated. I mean, maybe mine was dictated too, but if so, it was dictated to someone with bad handwriting!
Anyway, mine was sent from Wesel in a hurry ("Catch Peter now!!"), and the website's was sent from Wusterhausen at more leisure ("Plz talk Wretched Son out of predestination"), so I assume FW had more options for people with good handwriting to dictate the Wusterhausen one to.
ETA: Yes, I went and looked at the website, and it says "Cabinet order. Handwritten copy." Copies are almost always "clean copies," i.e. in better handwriting than the original.
Anyway, him having the idea to forge a Fritz letter in order to entrap Peter makes me wonder whether he remembered Clement and all his forged letters....
Ooh, I hadn't thought of that!
What's interesting is FW says "diese Briefe," which I take to mean he wanted the actual letters he enclosed sent; whereas Du Moulin and Meinerzhagen decide to forge a letter based on an actual letter. Maybe so they could make changes? Maybe so they'd have his original handwriting in case they needed to forge mutiple letters (no carbon paper in those days)?
Anyway, maybe FW *didn't* have forgery on the brain, that was an embellishment by his agents. But maybe!
Re: Minor Peter and Karl Keith findings
Date: 2025-01-09 03:57 am (UTC)and the website's was sent from Wusterhausen at more leisure ("Plz talk Wretched Son out of predestination")
I laughed :P
Re: Minor Peter and Karl Keith findings
Date: 2025-01-11 10:27 pm (UTC)Okay, I get it. I'm going back over Du Moulin trying to puzzle out more of the handwriting, and it's clear the reason they copied it rather than sending the original was to change the date and place so the date was more recent and the place was Utrecht. They obviously want it to look like Fritz has escaped and is in the Netherlands *now*, as opposed to sending an old letter from when he's in Germany, which isn't going to make Peter very confident about coming out of hiding.
Also, I guess Fritz still had a letter on him when he was arrested, meaning he had been traveling with it and hadn't destroyed it, when he was arrested. It looks like he was still hoping to make a break for it, until the very end.
Unless he had mailed it already, and it had been confiscated and given to FW. I suppose that's possible.
ETA: And they changed the place Peter was supposed to go to, as well: Amsterdam instead of Speyer. Yeah, Peter's not leaving the relative safety of Chesterfield's house to go *back* into Germany, and deep into Germany at that.
(I'm telling you, this plan changed daily. There was no "the plan"; there was only everyone winging it.)
So I think FW said "Send this authentic letter!" and his agents went, "That's not going to be very effective. What we can do instead is forge a letter that tells him to go somewhere he might actually go, in a way that makes it look like Fritz has escaped and is actually going to meet him there."
So no, I don't think FW had Clement on the brain; that was his agents displaying some initiative to make the plan more effective.
Re: Minor Peter and Karl Keith findings
Date: 2025-01-12 01:05 am (UTC)Re: Minor Peter and Karl Keith findings
Date: 2025-01-12 01:35 am (UTC)Re: Minor Peter and Karl Keith findings
Date: 2025-01-12 06:29 pm (UTC)And indeed!
At least one is the Lt. Cordier that he sent to Amsterdam. Cordier had the same experience Du Moulin and Meinerzhagen did: he reported a deserter, was told that deserters had asylum in this city, clarified that it wasn't just desertion but matters of state that this guy was guilty of, and was told that he'd have to wait until the official meeting of the authorities qualified to decide that.
Dutch: Screw you, FW.
This letter (beautiful handwriting, thank you, Cordier--didn't have to transcribe at all, could read at sight) also confirmed my educated guess that the "Waapen van Embden" was an inn in Amsterdam. You may remember that that's where the forged letter told Peter to go to meet Fritz. So my guess is that Du Moulin and Meinerzhagen picked that inn after receiving notification from Cordier that he was staying there. Since Cordier's letter is dated the 18th, and they sent the forged letter on the 20th, and Amsterdam to The Hague is 60 km, I assume the mail could get there in time for that to be the sequence of events.
Stay tuned for exciting Knyphausen drama not involving Peter but worth reporting anyway!
ETA: Tangentially involving Peter!
Re: Minor Peter and Karl Keith findings
Date: 2025-01-15 05:23 am (UTC)Dutch: Screw you, FW.
:)