Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 47

[cahn]

We haven't had a new post since before December 25, so obligatory Yuletide link to this hilarious story of Frederick the Great babysitting his bratty little brother, with bonus Fritz/Fredersdorf!

Comments

Re: Løvenørn letters: Sep 10, 1730

[mildred_of_midgard]

I see Knight Hotham belongs to the same google translate family as the Knight of Lorraine. *g*

Heee! Lol, yes, I missed that when cleaning up the google translate fic. Obviously, I go for speed on these things, not accuracy.

Lövenörn spelling it Guidickens, as one word, is a good reminder of what we didn't realize for the longest time, that it's not Guy Dickens, but Melchior Guy-Dickens.

The thing is, I *knew* it was spelled that way in contemporary German texts, since very early in salon, but I thought it was just a "Germans don't speak English" thing! Not that it was telling us something.

In other words, he didn't incriminate Danemark more than the absolute minimum wise and also, unlike Katte, didn't try to sell FW on Seckendorff & Grumbkow trying to make him into a Catholic to marry MT :)

Truly a Cicero! :'D

Spaen was accused of, and admitting to, chaperoning her and Fritz on some strolls

That's what I thought! Thank you for confirming I wasn't misremembering.

But her parents definitely weren't banished from either Potsdam or Berlin.

Okay, good. I would have liked to think I would remember such a thing.

Fritz getting half his hair torn out reminds me of Guy Dickens claiming he lives unshaven with a wild beard and long hair in Küstrin, i.e. it's not true at all but says something about the imagination of the respective envoy and belongs to the trope of the abused prisoner.

Yep, I was thinking of exactly this point of comparison.

Let's not forget: she gave birth to Ferdinand in the same year in late spring (May, I think?), and it's now early September.

Yes, I was thinking of that. And thank you for reminding me that she was in denial about the Amalie pregnancy.

also doesn't appear to have been one for physical exercise like riding or walking, unlike, say, her grandmother Sophie of Hannover.

Or even MT, who exercised and *still* got fat after all those pregnancies.

Doris Ritter

[selenak]

I looked up Doris Ritter's wiki entry to be on the safe side, and yep, no mention of the parents getting banished. Otoh it's mentioned her father tried pleading for mercy with FW repeatedly to spare her the punishment, but in vain. (Presumably he could not have done that when exiled.) Also, it's worth repeating FW's direct order in its sheer ghastliness (and also because it has a date you can compare to the date of Lövenörn reporting it):

„dem Hoff Rath Klinte, daß er Morgen die in arrest allhier einsitzende Cantors Tochter soll auspeitschen laßen, und soll dieselbe alßdann ewig auf Spandow in das Spinnhauß gebracht werden, erstlich soll dieselbe Vor dem Rathhause gepeitscht werden, hernach vor des Vaters Hause, und dann auff allen Ecken der Stadt.“

– Potsdam, den 6. Sept. 1730. Fr. Wilhelm

Note the extra cruelty of her being whipped in front of her father's house as well. I did misrenember which friend chaperoned her and Fritz, though, it was Ingersleben, not Spaen, according to wiki. Which also said the relationship lasted six months, from January to June 1730, i.e. exactly the high time of Fritz/Katte relations. (Presumably the January date is based on Ingersleben's testimony. But it's interesting that Fritz in January - after Peter gets transferred to Wesel? - intensifies his relations with Katte and starts a whatever it was involving strolls and concerts with poor Doris.) Which is also when he's definite that he wans to escape by any means necessary.

Oh, and that wiki entry also mentions Ingersleben's exact sentence, complete with another direct quote. As opposed to Lövenörn reporting he got sentenced for life (which we knew had not been the case), he got sentenced for six months in Spandau, because he should have: wißen und urtheilen können, daß S. K. M. dergleichen [Spaziergänge] höchst mißfällig seyn würde“.

Re: Doris Ritter

[mildred_of_midgard]

Note the extra cruelty of her being whipped in front of her father's house as well.

Yeah, FW liked the "pour encourager les autres" approach, making people witness the punishment of people they were close to. I think he hanged a minister outside the place where the other ministers met? Something like that. It wasn't just Fritz and Katte.

But it's interesting that Fritz in January - after Peter gets transferred to Wesel? - intensifies his relations with Katte and starts a whatever it was involving strolls and concerts with poor Doris.)

Yes, that is interesting! I hadn't noticed the dates.

Thank you for the detective work and providing the quotes!

Re: Doris Ritter

[cahn]

Note the extra cruelty of her being whipped in front of her father's house as well.

Ugh, every time I think I'm used to FW he does something else that's just... needlessly cruel! :(