Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 47

[cahn]

We haven't had a new post since before December 25, so obligatory Yuletide link to this hilarious story of Frederick the Great babysitting his bratty little brother, with bonus Fritz/Fredersdorf!

Comments

[selenak]

LOL about the Kreuzzeitung as an explainer (this was the ultra conservative ultra patriotic paper that was launched after the failed 1848 Revolution). And speaking of 1848, Alas I could see only a bit since I don't have a Tumblr Account, but enough to notice that Wilhelm I. is very much written up in the Kreuzzeitung style, i.e. no mention of the fact that he was in 1848 so hated and unpopular in Berlin as Crown Prince that his palace was attacked (because he was blamed for the fact soldiers had shot over 200 people on March 18th) and he ran all the way to Cousin Victoria in Britain while bitching about his brother the King making concessions to the mob in the aftermath of the March massacre. (A young Bismarck suggested a daring counter revolution scheme to Wilhelm's wife, who had remained in Berlin and thought this Brandenburg Junker confusing himself with James Bond was nuts. She'd always hate him, btw. Even when he made Wilhelm Emperor.)

Who won the Habsburg tournament? ETA: And was this an all Habsburg tournament or did they have separate ones for the Spanish and the Austrian lines?

[aella_irene]

They seem very...traditional. There is much refusal to discuss Fritz's sexuality, though I think it is in 'we doth protest too much' mode.

The Habsburg tournament was won by Maria Theresa, in a final against Max of Mexico, which I'm still very angry about.

[selenak]

Max of Mexico? How did he get into the finale? I mean, he's tragic and sympathetic and all that, but as a ruler, being deposed and shot by the revolution sort of is a judgment of its own...

Anyway, MT is not a bad choice, but I do want to know whether any Habsburgs predating the 18th century were an option? And did it have to be a ruling monarch or were regents also allowed, in which case I'm nominating my girl Margaret of Austria (since there were several Margarets of Austria, I mean Charles V's aunt and Maximilian I's daughter), and both Mary of Hungary and Margaret of Parma while I'm at it, and I know Mildred would go for Leopold the competent middle child, reformer of Tuscany and short lived Emperor, Joseph's younger brother, as part of the competition.

[mildred_of_midgard]

Yeah, I vote Leopold!

Haha, I have to share the final post in the MT-Max showdown:

Maria Theresa, Archduchess of Austria, Queen of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia, etc. reigned 1740-1780

The empress who reformed the empire while having a ton of children at the same time.

Maximilian , Emperor of Mexico, reign: 1864-1867

The last emperor of Mexico who supported liberal reform against the desires of Mexican conservatives.

Propaganda under the cut:

Maria Theresa:

From anon:

- chucked into ruling at age 23. while pregnant

- no prep!!!! Prussia invades Silesia!!! Ministers fucking around for their own provincial interests instead of for the Whole !!!!! and she has to somehow cope with all of this ....

- ALL WHILE being pregnant with Joseph (II) and we know that guy was just as ornery in utero as he was irl

- she's everything! He (Francis) is just ....Ken.

- YAS QUEEN rediversify that gene pool

- originally reluctant to participate in the 1st partition of poland (who wants galicia let's be real)

Maximilian

From: anon

- He loved plants

- He was a sassy man

- He had good taste

- He learned Nahuatl

- He’s cute (I mean look at him)

- He said “gay rights”

- He banned child labour in Mexico

- He gave many rights back to indigenous people

- Bro was wronged by France (haven’t we all?)

- He’s baby

- Got executed, come on, give him this guys 🥺

- He loved to design gardens and collect insects which makes me think he would've loved playing animal crossing

- An outspoken liberal in a period where the monarchy was still quite conservative.

- Vice-Admiral of the Navy who initiated scientific projects and exploration.

- Aesthetic girlie. Collected flowers, painted, wrote poetry, and kept a journal. He would have loved Tumblr.

- (Probably) gay or bisexual.

- Allegedly slapped Franz Joseph for refusing to allow Lombardy to have an elective body.

- Sisi's favorite brother-in-law (and not in a romantic way, fuck you Netflix)

- Refused to take the Mexican crown until a plebiscite had been held because he wanted to be invited by the Mexican people.

- Gave up all of his Austrian titles to go to Mexico because he believed he had made a promise to them.

- Also, his wife was amazing and capable and the amount of pure misogyny that certain historians and biographers have thrown at her is ridiculous. I know this isn't a Carlota poll, but she'd want Max to win.

- Netflix did him unbelievably dirty. Please give him this.

Did you know my man Max repatriated many pieces of Mexica artefacts?

He told Austria to cough up 3 main things that he thought were rightfully Mexican.

1. The Chimalli

2. A codex

3. A letter from Cortez to the chocolate man people seem to call Charles

The Austrians took their time but eventually gave back something

Emphasis mine because I laughed out loud.

[aella_irene]

I was so angry about Max, who failed at so many basic elements of rulership...

[mildred_of_midgard]

But he would have enjoyed playing Animal Crossing!

...Priorities, I guess.

[cahn]

she's everything! He (Francis) is just ....Ken.

Thinking about FS in "I'm Just Ken" is just sending me, I gotta admit.

(Mildred: this is Ken from the Barbie movie (I'm linking this vid that's partially a making-of sort of video because I love those kinds of things). All the male singers/dancers in this video, most particularly Ryan Gosling and Simu Liu, are meant to be various instantiations of the Ken doll.)

[mildred_of_midgard]

Though I have not seen the movie (predictably), I have osmosed enough that I was able to make that deduction, thank you! :)

[aella_irene]

My question exactly! Max beat Rudolf II in the semi-finals, despite Rudolf having romped home over Fran Joseph, and Margaret. Does this link work for you? It is the bracket, and you can see who was CRUELLY ROBBED.

[mildred_of_midgard]

So Rudolph II makes it to the semi-finals, and Leopold II doesn't even get to be in the bracket?? It's a cruel, cruel world.

[aella_irene]

I'm not 100% sure how they decided the bracket, given the presence of Napoleon II.

[mildred_of_midgard]

According to MT, being a Habsburg is a dominant gene that is passed through the female line too. :P

But yeah, interesting choices.

[selenak]

Quite. I mean, "Napoleon II", aka the Duke of Reichstadt, was deliberately kept from any position all his short life and never commanded or ruled anything, and he wins in the first round over.... Philip of Spain? Philip II? I think even Elizabeth I. would have been insulted on her arch nemesis' behalf.

[cahn]

My girl MT, yeah! (I do stan for her over Leopold despite all her flaws, sorry Mildred.) But Max of Mexico over Margaret of Parma?? CRUELLY ROBBED INDEED.

[selenak]

SO TRUE. I mean, I'm glad both Margarets and Mary of Hungary were there at all, but having Margaret of Parma lose out against Max just isn't fair. Having to rule the Netherlands with brother Philip and the Duke of Alba in your neck is easily as hard as ruling Mexico with the French as your sponsor, and Margaret had the good sense to resign when she couldn't work under these conditions.