Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 46

[cahn]

Background: The kids' school has a topic for "Unit" every trimester that a lot of their work (reading, writing, some math) revolves around. These topics range from time/geographic periods ('Colonial America') to geography ('Asia') to science ('Space') to social science ('Business and Economics'). (I have some issues with this way of doing things, but that's a whole separate post.) Anyway, for Reasons, they have had to come up with a new topic this year, and E's 7/8 class is doing "World Fairs" as their new topic.

Me: I know E's teacher is all about World Fairs and I know she is great and will do a good job. But I feel like if we had a different teacher who wasn't so into World Fairs, they wouldn't do such a good job and another topic would be better.
Me: Like... the Enlightenment!
D: Heh, you could teach that! But you'd have to restrain yourself from making everything about Frederick the Great.
Me: But that's the thing! Everyone does relate to each other in this time period! Voltaire -- and his partner Émilie du Châtelet, who was heavily involved in the discourse of conservation of energy and momentum -- well, I've told you Voltaire had a thing with Fritz -- and then there's Empress Maria Theresa, who went to war with him a few times -- and Catherine the Great --
D, meditatively: You know --
Me: *am innocently not warned even though this is the same tone of voice that is often followed by, say, a bad pun*
D: -- it's impressive how everyone from this 'the Great' family is so famous!
Me: *splutters*
D, thoughtfully: But of course there's probably selection bias, as the ones who aren't famous don't get mentioned. You never see 'Bob the Great' in the history books...
Me: *splutters more*

Comments

Re: Essex Erections: The Original

[mildred_of_midgard]

Thank you, this is awesome!

rose out of his bed and, taking up his shirt, did show to them all so able and extraordinarily sufficient matter that they all cried out shame of his lady and said that, if the ladies of the court knew as much as they knew, they would tread her to death.

Lol, I'm laughing so hard.

(Pithy commentary from modern writer: "The ability to obtain an early morning erection prior to urinating is not necessarily indicative of sexual potency."

So, not an expert on erectile dysfunction here, but what I've read is that if you go to a doctor these days complaining of ED, one of the first things they'll ask you is whether you can get erections in your sleep. If you can, any impotence during the day is probably psychological, not physical.

So yeah, if he can get it up at night/early in the morning, it doesn't necessarily mean that he can get it up with ladies who aren't his wife--but it means he might!

Re: Essex Erections: The Original

[selenak]

Indeed, but I do find it interesting that no one in a largely Essex sympathetic environment and in an era where marital fidelity was incredibly rare pointed towards any mistresses. Not just during his first marriage but later.

Another thing: Frances was investigated by eight women - two midwives and six respectable London ladies - and declared a virgin. This was met with great scepticism and ridicule. Pamphleteers speculated that surely, an actual virgin was substituted. (Interestingly, they didn't speculate Frances and/or her family bribed the lot.) But contrary to her post scandal(s) reputation, where people declared she was a murderous nymphomaniac, the fact is that between her marriage and the start of her entanglement with Carr/Somerset, there is no scandal attached to her name, or even a rumour about affairs. There is just one remark that she was one of the ladies participating in a court masque staged by Ben Jonson, and that's it. She might even have done what her older sister - the one married to Robert Cecil's son - did and not been present at court for the majority of Essex' absence; after all, she was still very young. But because everyone from Abbot in his divorce write up onwards went on about how corrupting court life is, you have even today writers declare Frances had something of a reputation before she and Somerset ever fell for each other, and some even declare she had an affair with Henry Prince of Wales. (This is something that was part of the ever more outrageous stories circling at the time of the Overbury trials, which even upped the ante so Prince Henry himself, that champion of Protestantism, was really poisoned by the evil Catholic conspirators, sincle clearly Overbury couldn't have been the first victim.) For which, again, there is no contemporary indication, no gossipy envoy letter (and Henry as Prince of Wales was watched like a hawk), no pamphlet, to letter between nobles.

Of course, Frances and Carr/Somerset were clearly lovers by the time she had her divorce proceedings with Essex. And you can have sex without vaginal penetration. (Given Carr was also James' lover and maybe also overbury's, see other comment I'm about to write, he'd know.) And maybe Frances did bribe all eight women to deliver a false testimony as to her state of virginity. (If so, it's still remarkable that Team Abbot-Southhampton-Pembroke, all of whom also had lots of money, didn't get one of these women to recant. It seems still more likely than substituting another woman.) But still, it seems Frances and Bob of Essex spent three years of married life without penetration happening. Their mutual loathing undoubtedly contributed to it. Then again: Philippe d'Orleans managed to get Minette pregnant repeatedly in a state of mutual dislike and no desire; presumably wanting to exercise power helped.

And with Bob of Essex' second wife, reminder, relations got bad so quickly hat he humiliated her in public by saying he'd only accept paternity if the kid was born before a certain date (which it was), meaning marital relations can't have taken long, either. Basically Bob of Essex strikes as a guy who doesn't like women in any sense of the word, though there's no sense of him desiring men, either - maybe he just was ace.

Re: Essex Erections: The Original

[cahn]

Ha, I love that she was declared a virgin! Take that, Bob of Essex :P

But still, it seems Frances and Bob of Essex spent three years of married life without penetration happening. Their mutual loathing undoubtedly contributed to it. Then again: Philippe d'Orleans managed to get Minette pregnant repeatedly in a state of mutual dislike and no desire; presumably wanting to exercise power helped.

I also got the impression that it was pretty important for Philippe and Minette to have kids in a way that it doesn't seem that Bob and Frances had it as a priority? I mean, again, having kids may just not have been a priority because they were TEENAGERS. (again, !)