Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 46

[cahn]

Background: The kids' school has a topic for "Unit" every trimester that a lot of their work (reading, writing, some math) revolves around. These topics range from time/geographic periods ('Colonial America') to geography ('Asia') to science ('Space') to social science ('Business and Economics'). (I have some issues with this way of doing things, but that's a whole separate post.) Anyway, for Reasons, they have had to come up with a new topic this year, and E's 7/8 class is doing "World Fairs" as their new topic.

Me: I know E's teacher is all about World Fairs and I know she is great and will do a good job. But I feel like if we had a different teacher who wasn't so into World Fairs, they wouldn't do such a good job and another topic would be better.
Me: Like... the Enlightenment!
D: Heh, you could teach that! But you'd have to restrain yourself from making everything about Frederick the Great.
Me: But that's the thing! Everyone does relate to each other in this time period! Voltaire -- and his partner Émilie du Châtelet, who was heavily involved in the discourse of conservation of energy and momentum -- well, I've told you Voltaire had a thing with Fritz -- and then there's Empress Maria Theresa, who went to war with him a few times -- and Catherine the Great --
D, meditatively: You know --
Me: *am innocently not warned even though this is the same tone of voice that is often followed by, say, a bad pun*
D: -- it's impressive how everyone from this 'the Great' family is so famous!
Me: *splutters*
D, thoughtfully: But of course there's probably selection bias, as the ones who aren't famous don't get mentioned. You never see 'Bob the Great' in the history books...
Me: *splutters more*

Comments

Re: Essex Erections: The Original

[selenak]

Something else I've learned is that in the Jacobean world, so many people still were absolutely crazy about Bob of Essex' father, the Earl of Essex who was Elizabeth's last fave. Seriously, it's like the Elvis or James Dean fandom of the Jacobean age. He was the best, the bravest, the most wonderful, the knightliest and what not. Now personally, I always thought Essex (the fave) was the least interesting of Elizabeth's favourites, and also the dumbest, with his rebellion being only the last case in point. (Seriously, way before that - when Essex actually draws his sword in Elizabeth's Privy Council because she's just boxed his ears and yells "I would not have let your father treat me this way!", you know he's both stupid and has zero historical knowledge, because three guesses as to what would have happened to him if he'd drawn his sword in Henry VIII's presence. Basically, he was young, handsome and personally charming, with zero common sense or strategy - and the only one of Elizabeth's favourites who wasn't hated (which both Leicester and Raleigh were) but incredibly popular. (But still not popular enough for the Londoners to actually go "Yes, lead us, oh glorious one!" when he's trying rebellion.)

Anyway, this post mortem fandom must always be kept in mind. Because the main reason why teen Frances and teen Bob were maried by their respective families was because Robert Cecil - who had been Essex' main rival back in the Elizabethan day and was very much blamed by the people for his downfall (unnecessarily so, since Essex did most it of it himself, but the evil advisor trope is so beloved, especially since they didn't want to blame Good Queen Bess) - had married one of hs sons to Frances' older sister, and suggested the match to James as a way to reconcile himself to the Essex fans and the Essex family. Basically they'd be in laws. Robert Cecil as the Earl of Salisbury had become James' most important advisor, so James okayed it as a good idea to spread harmony among his new courtiers. (Salisbury was dead when the whole Somerset-Overbury thing went down, which was part of the problem, because there was no one to replace him till young George Villiers/Buckingham thought he could be Carr and Cecil BOTH for James, and then for Charles.)

Also, Essex fandom along with traditional misogyny and fear of women who cast doubt on your sexual prowess was a big reason - when combined of "OMG not the Howards and their crypto Catholicism, DOWN WITH SPAIN!" feeling - why so many people sided with Bob even before the "Overbury was poisoned!" news made the rounds. Surely the son of the wonderful Essex could not help being a wonderful manly guy himself!

And then when he became the first army leader for the Parliamentarians, every Civil War era scribe was retrospectively on his side as well. The fact that he managed to fuck up his second marriage, too, was regarded as incidental.

Back one more time to Elizabethan Essex: whenever I see someone, be they a biographer, historian or contemporary, talk about how sure, he was rash, but at least he was always honest, not calculating like the Cecils and Bacons of the Elizabethan world, I roll my eyes, because: just ask poor Dr. Lopes how good a guy Essex was. Ugh.

Re: Essex Erections: The Original

[luzula]

Thanks for the background--although I will admit that I am unlikely to do any nerdery further back in time than 1600, at least at this point! I mean, obviously I know Elizabeth was queen before James, but I don't know much about her reign...

Re: Essex Erections: The Original

[mildred_of_midgard]

All I have to add is that the impression I retain of Essex from high school reading days is *absolutely* that of an Elvis/James Dean figure. So yeah, that's still alive and well.