cahn | Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 46

Background: The kids' school has a topic for "Unit" every trimester that a lot of their work (reading, writing, some math) revolves around. These topics range from time/geographic periods ('Colonial America') to geography ('Asia') to science ('Space') to social science ('Business and Economics'). (I have some issues with this way of doing things, but that's a whole separate post.) Anyway, for Reasons, they have had to come up with a new topic this year, and E's 7/8 class is doing "World Fairs" as their new topic.

Me: I know E's teacher is all about World Fairs and I know she is great and will do a good job. But I feel like if we had a different teacher who wasn't so into World Fairs, they wouldn't do such a good job and another topic would be better.
Me: Like... the Enlightenment!
D: Heh, you could teach that! But you'd have to restrain yourself from making everything about Frederick the Great.
Me: But that's the thing! Everyone does relate to each other in this time period! Voltaire -- and his partner Émilie du Châtelet, who was heavily involved in the discourse of conservation of energy and momentum -- well, I've told you Voltaire had a thing with Fritz -- and then there's Empress Maria Theresa, who went to war with him a few times -- and Catherine the Great --
D, meditatively: You know --
Me: *am innocently not warned even though this is the same tone of voice that is often followed by, say, a bad pun*
D: -- it's impressive how everyone from this 'the Great' family is so famous!
Me: *splutters*
D, thoughtfully: But of course there's probably selection bias, as the ones who aren't famous don't get mentioned. You never see 'Bob the Great' in the history books...
Me: *splutters more*

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

selenak

For Émilie, I think a playlist could/should include the following points:

- Émilie as the daughter of nobility and privilege but finding out growing up she's interested in books and science more than anything else

- Émilie and her husband: not passion, but a good friendship and a sensible arrangement at the same time

- Émilie/Science OTP: she starts to seriously study

- Émilie also discovers the joy of sex (doesn't have to Émilie/Richelieu (the other one), more like Émilie/ her pre Voltaire lovers, whom she had affairs with while managing to remain friends afterwards (for the most part)

- Émilie/Voltaire (first stage): falling in love/building Cirey together/collaboriation

- Émilie/Newton: (not just covered by Émilie/Science, I think Newton is worth an extra song, given the translation will end up her Magnum Opus)

- Émilie & the Academy: she spars with some members and is patronized as a woman, but while her essay doesn't win top prize, it will get published

- Émilie/Voltaire (second stage): differences start to show, from scientic (Leibniz) to personal (sex), they argue a lot, but are still crazy about each other; also, jealousy (Fritz, among others)

- Émilie & her children: she arranges a sensible marriage for her daughter just as expected as a woman of her class, tries to get her son interested in maths via a book, but both of them are essentially raised by other people - what is it like for her, being a long distance mother of her time?

- Émilie/Voltaire (third stage): Madame Denis, Saint-Lambert, big explosion, tentative reconciliation

- Émilie/Saint Lambert: falling in love one more time, and first time with a younger man

- Émilie - Principia - Pregnancy: she tackles her most challenging work - and she's pregnant; will she manage to give birth to both?

- Death and Immortality: Émilie dies (with her three main guys at her side) but what she has created will live forever

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Me: It's been too long since I read an Émilie bio. *sad panda*

Selena: Never fear, the Cliff Notes is here!

:D

So, that was most helpful, thank you. I did a first pass just at the songs on my phone at lunch, and here are the thoughts I had:

"The Middle" (Jimmy Eat World) for Émilie & the Academy. This song has always annoyed me, because "it's only in your head you feel looked down on" is basically gaslighting for every bullying victim who I would think would be the intended audience for this song. But otherwise, I like it.

"That's What I Like About You" (Trisha Yearwood) for Émilie/Voltaire (first stage). Couldn't find a video with lyrics, so lyrics are here.

"Chemists Know" (University of Irvine) for Émilie/science OTP.

"Standing Outside the Fire" (Garth Books) for Émilie discovering the joy of sex. I like this one especially because I always felt the song was limiting itself too much in focusing on romantic/sexual relationships; the mood applies just as much to living your best life in every way possible. And that fits Émilie very well. Plus: fire! :D Lyrics here.

For death and immortality, I'm tempted by "Remember" (Josh Groban), but it doesn't specifically talk about your achievements outliving you. If you know the story is from the Troy soundtrack, you can read that between the lines, but taken strictly at face value, it's not giving Émilie the kind of credit that I want to give her. Will ponder this one.

I will give it some more thought later, and branch out to songs not on my phone!

Edited Date: 2024-01-03 11:40 pm (UTC)

From:

cahn

I am terrible at playlists, both because I don't know any pop songs and because even the ones I do know I can never think of ones that fit.

But! Of course we must have on the playlist "She Blinded Me with Science" :D

I really wanted one of the Hamilton songs to work for immortality-past-death but none of them quite do.

I also kind of want one of the Candide songs, for obvious reasons. Maybe Make Our Garden Grow? It doesn't 100% fit but I just kind of imagine her and her three guys singing it as part of the Emilie/Saint Lambert era...

From:

selenak

Playlists are a useful way to get to know new cool songs, as I wasn't familiar with Mildred's choices before but am now (and agree on their suitability!)

For near the end of Émilie's life, not capturing the legacy aspect but working on her emotional resolutions, The Scientist? (Coldplay original with lycris, Miley Cyrus cover version for the female vocal.

For the big Denis/Saint Lambert argument with Voltaire, well, I will survive by Gloria Gaynor is a classic for a reason, if perhaps a bit too final given that they did not separate for good at this point.

For Émilie's achievements outliving her, well, there's Emily, which happens to be a song about a female physicist, though not Émilie du Chatelet.

Isaac Newton has his own song, I see. :) But I also like this oneBonjour.

Using something from Candide would be good, but nothing quite fits, content wise; otoh, thinking of Leonard Bernstein, how about Something's Coming for young adult Émilie?

I'm still stumped on the marriage and the kids, though.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

Playlists are a useful way to get to know new cool songs, as I wasn't familiar with Mildred's choices before but am now (and agree on their suitability!)

Likewise, a number of both your Fritzian and Émilie choices were new to me!

For the big Denis/Saint Lambert argument with Voltaire, well, I will survive by Gloria Gaynor is a classic for a reason, if perhaps a bit too final given that they did not separate for good at this point.

For a tentative reconciliation, how about How Do You Do (Mouth and MacNeal)?

For Émilie's achievements outliving her, well, there's Emily, which happens to be a song about a female physicist, though not Émilie du Chatelet.

I approve the song, but

cahn will probably laugh if I say I read the lyrics and went, "But that's backwards!"

That the meteorite is a source of the light
And the meteor's just what we see
And the meteoroid is a stone that's devoid of the fire that propelled it to thee

Somebody I found when googling my protest: "That's backwards! But I choose to believe it's a deliberate authorial choice."

Me: *unconvinced*

:P

From:

cahn

I am laughing! Because I had the same reaction: "...wait a second?" I like the song too (though I must admit that singer is not my favorite).

From:

selenak

Meanwhile, I can see the internet must have mixed and mingled and swalllowed parts of my reply. This is the second Newton-involving song, from Horrible Histories, whereas I had meant Bonjour from Disney's Beauty and the Beast as a tongue in cheek description of Émilie's childhood and youth and her clashing with the expectations of her society.

From:

cahn

Oh, lol, I had actually thought of (and then forgot to write down) I Will Survive for Emilie's argument with Voltaire! Great minds, and I enthusiastically agree :D

Something's Coming is great! I haven't listened to the rest yet.

From:

mildred_of_midgard

But! Of course we must have on the playlist "She Blinded Me with Science" :D

...I did not realize that was a song! See,

selenak is right, playlists are for introducing us to new songs. :D

Speaking of, afaik it's never been set to music, but this poem from Stanislaw Lem's Cyberiad is very appropriate: Love and Tensor Algebra.