Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 46

[cahn]

Background: The kids' school has a topic for "Unit" every trimester that a lot of their work (reading, writing, some math) revolves around. These topics range from time/geographic periods ('Colonial America') to geography ('Asia') to science ('Space') to social science ('Business and Economics'). (I have some issues with this way of doing things, but that's a whole separate post.) Anyway, for Reasons, they have had to come up with a new topic this year, and E's 7/8 class is doing "World Fairs" as their new topic.

Me: I know E's teacher is all about World Fairs and I know she is great and will do a good job. But I feel like if we had a different teacher who wasn't so into World Fairs, they wouldn't do such a good job and another topic would be better.
Me: Like... the Enlightenment!
D: Heh, you could teach that! But you'd have to restrain yourself from making everything about Frederick the Great.
Me: But that's the thing! Everyone does relate to each other in this time period! Voltaire -- and his partner Émilie du Châtelet, who was heavily involved in the discourse of conservation of energy and momentum -- well, I've told you Voltaire had a thing with Fritz -- and then there's Empress Maria Theresa, who went to war with him a few times -- and Catherine the Great --
D, meditatively: You know --
Me: *am innocently not warned even though this is the same tone of voice that is often followed by, say, a bad pun*
D: -- it's impressive how everyone from this 'the Great' family is so famous!
Me: *splutters*
D, thoughtfully: But of course there's probably selection bias, as the ones who aren't famous don't get mentioned. You never see 'Bob the Great' in the history books...
Me: *splutters more*

Comments

Re: Løvenørn letters: unknown date

[selenak]

Mildred: Google wants that to mean "could no longer be proud of," which makes sense in context, but reading it in isolation, without knowing anything about FW, I would have taken it as "could not be more proud of." The original is "ne se pouvoit plus fier à un homme qui en avait autant," if anyone else wants to weigh in. Does FW actually want to see some spirit in his defeated son? Or does that unnerve him about Prussia's future under Wretched Son?

Given this is FW "If my father had treated me this way, I'd have killed myself, but you are too much of a coward" we're talking about, I vote he does want to see some spirit, and the correct translation is "could not be more proud of". That Lövenörn describes him wavering between strict monarch and Dad who could forgive would underline that.


Mildred: I can imagine Fritz, if he knew about this, thinking frantically, "Has he seen the White Lady yet? Has he seen the White Lady?"

LOL. Sounds plausible to me. And you know, Fritz in October - where we also have a smuggled letter to Wilhelmine - sounds pretty defiant. He's reasonably certain FW won't kill him, and it doesn't seem to have occured to him yet Katte might die.

Ha! Lövenörn is the first envoy to mention the EVil Catholic Plot by Seckendorff and Grumbkow which Fritz pitched to Katte as an argument for why he must run away. Go figure that it's the very Protestant Danish envoy. You can almost feel in his lines he wants to believe this is true. Given how utterly counterproductive this would have been to Seckendorff and Grumbkow's goals (which were first and foremost to make FW side with Team HRE NOW, because they'd know FW's reaction to even a whisper of princely conversion, you'd think anyone with a smidgeon of common sense would see through the lie, but if Lövenörn is inclined to buy this, I guess Katte has an excuse.

BTW, I wonder whether Eugene's turnaround on Katte is also influenced by hearing this particular tale?

In the meantime, I know that the King recently told a certain person that he did not want to produce the second volume of the Czarewitz, but that he would make his son fret away his crime in prison.

I wonder whether this is the same lady in waiting to SD who according to Wilhelmine told FW to not let the spirit of Peter the Great and Philip of Spain enter his breast? In any case, it's unsurprising Alexei was on everyone's mind, since that was the most recent example of a royal father first imprisoning and then killing his son. BTW, FW saying "I don't want to publish "The Czarevich: The Sequel" is surprisingly versatile for FW, no?

Re: Løvenørn letters: unknown date

[mildred_of_midgard]

Given this is FW "If my father had treated me this way, I'd have killed myself, but you are too much of a coward"

Oh, you're right! I'd completely forgotten about that quote. Okay, yes, then that's good, that means my French isn't as bad as I feared it was. :P Thank you!

Mildred: I can imagine Fritz, if he knew about this, thinking frantically, "Has he seen the White Lady yet? Has he seen the White Lady?"

LOL. Sounds plausible to me.

Fritz: I've always been too enlightened to believe in ghosts, but for this, I'll make an exception! (Besides, what he wrote to Wilhelmine was that ghosts are "mostly" imagination.)

Me: Fritz, the real ghost your father is going to see is the ghost of Gundling, and he's not quite dead yet.

Ha! Lövenörn is the first envoy to mention the EVil Catholic Plot by Seckendorff and Grumbkow which Fritz pitched to Katte as an argument for why he must run away. Go figure that it's the very Protestant Danish envoy.

Exactly what I was thinking!

BTW, I wonder whether Eugene's turnaround on Katte is also influenced by hearing this particular tale?

Interesting. Maybe!

I wonder whether this is the same lady in waiting to SD who according to Wilhelmine told FW to not let the spirit of Peter the Great and Philip of Spain enter his breast?

Could be!

BTW, FW saying "I don't want to publish "The Czarevich: The Sequel" is surprisingly versatile for FW, no?

Lol, yes, and I thought that was a great line. Løvenørn's handwriting is well worth deciphering! (I'm looking at you, Maupertuis.)

Re: Løvenørn letters: unknown date

[mildred_of_midgard]

if Lövenörn is inclined to buy this, I guess Katte has an excuse.

Also, I still think ALL the multi-year drama around future August III and kidnapping attempts by Evil Catholics and whatnot primed *everyone* to believe it, that's why Klement picked that story, FW bought it, Wilhelmine bought it, Fritz bought it, Katte bought it, Lövenörn bought it, Charlotte's husband will buy it for their grandson...Even 19th and 20th century (Protestant) historians have been like "What did they do to that poor boy to break his will??" about August III.

Re: Løvenørn letters: unknown date

[cahn]

Ha, I'd forgotten about the "too much of a coward thing," but I would have voted that way anyway based on the French and what you said about That Lövenörn describes him wavering between strict monarch and Dad who could forgive.

Re: Løvenørn letters: unknown date

[mildred_of_midgard]

Yes, and "could no longer be proud of him" presupposes that he was proud of Fritz in the first place. Which, well... :( So I think salon's unanimous reading is right.