Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 46

[cahn]

Background: The kids' school has a topic for "Unit" every trimester that a lot of their work (reading, writing, some math) revolves around. These topics range from time/geographic periods ('Colonial America') to geography ('Asia') to science ('Space') to social science ('Business and Economics'). (I have some issues with this way of doing things, but that's a whole separate post.) Anyway, for Reasons, they have had to come up with a new topic this year, and E's 7/8 class is doing "World Fairs" as their new topic.

Me: I know E's teacher is all about World Fairs and I know she is great and will do a good job. But I feel like if we had a different teacher who wasn't so into World Fairs, they wouldn't do such a good job and another topic would be better.
Me: Like... the Enlightenment!
D: Heh, you could teach that! But you'd have to restrain yourself from making everything about Frederick the Great.
Me: But that's the thing! Everyone does relate to each other in this time period! Voltaire -- and his partner Émilie du Châtelet, who was heavily involved in the discourse of conservation of energy and momentum -- well, I've told you Voltaire had a thing with Fritz -- and then there's Empress Maria Theresa, who went to war with him a few times -- and Catherine the Great --
D, meditatively: You know --
Me: *am innocently not warned even though this is the same tone of voice that is often followed by, say, a bad pun*
D: -- it's impressive how everyone from this 'the Great' family is so famous!
Me: *splutters*
D, thoughtfully: But of course there's probably selection bias, as the ones who aren't famous don't get mentioned. You never see 'Bob the Great' in the history books...
Me: *splutters more*

Comments

Re: Kidnapping and forced conversion to Catholicism

[selenak]

So now August III--who was named co-guardian for the baby by FS--has been on both sides of the Catholic kidnapping and forced conversion rumors: as the alleged kidnapee and the alleged kidnapper!

LOL. What I'd like to know is how people thought this particular kidnapping scheme would work out - I mean, other than Carl August becoming an obedient Son of Rome, obviously. (BTW: when I wonder whether FW truly thought Fritz would end up as an obedient RC, knowing Fritz and his obstinacy, when believing in the 1718/1719 "plot", I remind myself FW probably thought Fritz would be capable of it if only to spite him.) In August 3 telling Fritz "Hand back Saxony, or your baby grand nephew will go to mass as soon as he can walk?"

Re: Kidnapping and forced conversion to Catholicism

[mildred_of_midgard]

Lol! No, the idea seems to be that as Carl August's guardian, August III can act as regent and keep Weimar from joining Fritz in the Seven Years' War.

As a reminder to cahn (and luzula, if reading), Carl August is the son of Anna Amalia, who is the daughter of Fritz's sister Charlotte and her husband the Duke of Brunswick. Fritz, AW, and Charlotte are all married to these Brunswick siblings. One of the Brunswick brothers died fighting in Fritz's army at Soor (candidate for the worst condolence letter ever). Another will die fighting in Fritz's army in the battle of Hochkirch this very year (1758). Another, Ferdinand, is one of Fritz's greatest generals during the Seven Years' War, and certainly his most independent one.

This is a family that has close ties to Fritz, is what I'm saying.

So the Saxons and Austrians have every reason to believe that if the Brunswick family gets its way, and the regency is handed over to Anna Amalia and her father (Charlotte's husband), Weimar will be on the side of Fritz in this war (and future wars).

To counter that, FS makes August III co-regent over Carl August, and it's quite understandable that kidnapping the baby would not only lead to his conversion to Catholicism, but to greater control by August over Weimar foreign policy and troop commitment. It would also make Weimar a more natural ally for Austria and Saxony in future wars. Even if the Treaty of Westphalia means Carl August can't change the local religion for his subjects, a conversion by a ruling prince can have foreign policy implications (that's actually why many of the German princes, including the Hohenzollerns way back when, converted in the first place).

"Hand back Saxony, or your baby grand nephew will go to mass as soon as he can walk?"

This made me laugh, but I think everyone, even August III, knew that argument would just result in Fritz justifying the occupation of Saxony for the Protestant cause, not in handing over Saxony. Troops. Weimar troops are where it's at.

Re: Kidnapping and forced conversion to Catholicism

[cahn]

Ha, thank you as always for the reminder!

(I will always remember Ferdinand of Brunswick being a better candidate for regent than the Hohenzollern Ferdinand, but I forgot that there were so many of them...)

Re: Kidnapping and forced conversion to Catholicism

[mildred_of_midgard]

I meant to mention the regent thing! I guess it's good that you'll always remember it, so I don't have to. :D

Re: Kidnapping and forced conversion to Catholicism

[luzula]

and luzula, if reading

I have Salon posts tracked and get emails for every comment (though they're autosorted to a certain folder in my email, to be read when I have time). So in a sense I am always reading, and will certainly see if I'm mentioned. But I skip or skim things I'm less interested in.

Thanks for the explanation, it did contextualize the thread for me! : )

Re: Kidnapping and forced conversion to Catholicism

[mildred_of_midgard]

Okay, good to know! Pretty much the same for me: autosorted to a folder, and I will skim things I'm less interested in (non-18th century, music, etc.), but I will at least take a quick look at every post.