Historical Characters, Including Frederick the Great, Discussion Post 45

[cahn]

Unfortunately, there was then at Berlin a King who pursued one policy only, who deceived his enemies, but not his servants, and who lied without scruple, but never without necessity.

(from The King's Secret - by Duke de Broglie, grand-nephew of the subject of the book, Comte de Broglie, and grandfather of the physicist) )

Comments

Re: James I and VI: Charles and George's Excellent Adventure

[cahn]

but of course the pair didn't even make it to Dover before giving the game away because they were as terrible as travelling undercover as Fritz would be on that Straßburg trip.

LOL!

Then they were in France where Buckingham managed to offend the French and provide Alexandre Dumas with a future plot by hitting on Queen Anne

...oh he's THAT Buckingham! :P (I get confused, okay. There are a lot of Buckinghams!) Huh, that reminds me I still have to finish Three Musketeers...

As for the Infanta, not that anyone asked her, but her pov was: I don't want to become Catherine of Aragon, thanks but NO THANKS!

<3

What if he completely rebranded himself, as the Protestant hero who organized this journey really to put an end to Spanish Catholic schemes

WOW. That's... some chutzpah.

And Charles had learned that making promises under durress doesn't count, a lesson he'd use so often in the up and coming Civl War that his subjects knew they could never come to an agreement with him he'd actually stick to. As for foreign wars, there wasn't a single one Charles and Buckingham led which they finished successfully.

Gosh. This is helping me with figuring out how Charles' eventual fate happened...

So was James a good or bad monarch, either by contemporary or modern standards?

Yeah, I can see that some of his legacy was rather harmful but idk, it sounds like he did really well with what he had, much better than a lot of these guys...

A Bunch of Buckinghams

[selenak]

To make your life easier in the future, here are the ones you've most likely come across so far:

Henry Stafford, Duke of Buckingham: The one from the end time of the Wars of the Roses, who first allied with Richard III and then turned against him. Is one of the stronger alternate suspects as to who killed the Princes in the Tower. (This Buckingham was descendended from a son of Edward III, just like the Houses of York and Lancaster were, and if Richard and Henry Tudor had wiped each other out, this Buckingham would have been a very plausible candidate for the throne. Shows up in Shakespeare.

George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham: Favourite of James, bff of Charles, supposedly sex on legs, great at scheming, property and power mongering, alas not very competent in foreign politics and war at all, as Charles' early reign demonstrates all too clearly. (The best you can say for Buckingham in this regard is that since Charles' later post Buckingham reign wasn't that much more successful, ahem, the problem might have been with Charles, who always did say Buckingham acted on his orders instead of blaming him for the increasing disasters and throwing him under the bus.) That's the one who shows up in the Three Musketeers having a secret affair with Anne and getting murdered by Milady by her manipulating his historical assassin John Felton into it. (Since Milady is a Dumas invented character, in history Felton did it on his lonesome, one of many poorly paid soldiers increasingly enraged at Buckingham.) One more thing: this Buckingham was the first Duke in a good while. The numbers of Dukes had increasingly decreased under the Tudors, because traditionally if you were a Duke you had royal blood in your ancestry, and no one wanted a rerun of the Wars of the Roses. The last Tudor era Duke was the one of Norfolk who conspired against Elizabeth in order to marry Mary Queen of Scots and whom Elizabeth after some reluctance - she was related to him on her mother's side, after all what with him being a Howard - had executed. After said execution, the Howards got stripped of the ducal title. James didn't restore it to them, either, he made two of the Howards Earls instead. So when he made his provincial obscure nobility Favourite first Earl and then DUKE of Buckingham, the first English Duke since Norfolk's execution, the anti Buckingham faction grew exponentially.

George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham: son of Sex-on-Legs Buckingham. Was a baby when Dad was murdered by Felton and got taken in by Charles I who had him co-raised with his son, future Charles II. Became bff with Charles II and shared exile with him, then made a deal with Cromwell so he could return, then the Restoration happened (awkward!) but Buckingham made up with Charles not least due to the intercession of his cousin Barbara, Charles' mistress, but also because he was Charles II' childhood friend, and while their relationship got stormy at times and Buckingham was repeatedly in and out of favour (for example, he supported the Monmouth-for-Successor plot), Charles never cut him off completely. What this Buckingham never had, though: a political office like his Dad. This is the Buckingham who shows up in the novel The King's Touch and in Georgette Heyer's novel about young Charles II escaping after Worcester.


Possible additional Buckingham you could have come across, but only if you're familiar with Henry VIII's early reign, i.e. before all the marital drama:

Edward Stafford, Duke of Buckingham: son of the Richard III era Buckingham. Was a big honcho at the Tudor court due to his mother being a Woodville, which made him a cousin of Elizabeth of York's and her son Henry VIII's. Henry had him executed for a conspiracy against himself. He only shows up in Shakespeare's rarely played Henry VIII and in the first season of THe Tudors but otherwise isn't popular in historical fiction. After Edward the Stafford family lost the Duchy of Buckingham and the title went dormant until James I and VI revived it for his boytoy.

Re: A Bunch of Buckinghams

[luzula]

I have also come across the 19th century Richard Temple-Nugent-Brydges-Chandos-Grenville, 2nd Duke of Buckingham and Chandos. *facepalms at name* This is because I have been to Stowe House, where he lived, and there was an exhibit about his father Richard Temple-Nugent-Brydges-Chandos-Grenville, 1st Duke of Buckingham and Chandos (who built up a vast fortune) and him (who squandered it all until he had to go overseas to flee his debts).

The reason I went to Stowe House is because of a connection to Flight of the Heron, obviously, which has a fictional Earl of Stowe.

Re: A Bunch of Buckinghams

[cahn]

WELL at least I am unlikely to confuse the names of the Richards Temple-Nugent-Brydges-Chandos-Grenville with the names of the other Dukes! (Though again, WHY WITH THE SAME NAMES. That was a rhetorical question. :P )

Re: A Bunch of Buckinghams

[cahn]

Yep, these are the guys! I've run across all of these except maybe Stafford (though I may have run across him as a bit player once or twice). Thank you for the useful primer :P

since Charles' later post Buckingham reign wasn't that much more successful, ahem, the problem might have been with Charles

lol!

George Villiers, Duke of Buckingham: son of Sex-on-Legs Buckingham.

At this point I said aloud, "This is NOT FAIR!" No wonder I'm having trouble with the Buckinghams when they have the same name!! :PP